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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask for your Home Ed ideas, experiences and anecdotes?

124 replies

Fideliney · 16/06/2014 18:26

Smile

Can we please try to keep it friendly?

Smile
OP posts:
CrabbyBlossomBottom · 21/06/2014 12:59

Mammuzza is your DS at Interhigh? My DD is starting there in September and I'd love to hear your opinion of it (both positive and negative) if so.

The state version, which they are apparently modelling on Interhigh and working closely with, is the Wey Ecademy. If it gets approved this summer by the DofE, it will open in Sept '15. Not only would it be free, and the exams will be free too, they are planning on paying for students to attend sports and extracurriclar activities locally. There'll be less flexibility though, I'd guess, and more rigid emphasis on attendance.

Very interesting to read everyone's experiences of HE and sad to see how many of you have struggled with the social side of things. We've had the opposite experience in the two and a half years I've been HEing DD... she has made a really lovely group of friends on the HE scene and has a great social life, but I really feel as though I'm not doing the academic side justice.

When she came out of school in Y4 she was quite unhappy and was struggling socially. It took a while of going to the HE groups and activities but she's now happier and more competent socially (she has Aspergers) than I could have hoped for. We've been really lucky to meet such nice kids (and parents). I don't find the HE scene cliquey at all, but then I have absolutely nil interest in cliques, close friendship groups, friendship politics etc. because I'm a right antisocial old cow. Grin I know some people to find the groups cliquey though, and someone was recently filling me in on some of the undercurrents and feuds between various people. I was Shock Shock because I had no idea (it's no mystery where DD gets her AS from Grin) and no comprehension of why they would waste all that energy being bitchy to each other!

I had this fond notion when I started HE that DD would regain her interest and thirst for learning once she was out of school. Er... no! It is still like banging my head against a wall trying to get her to learn anything, and just do not have the faith/trust that she will learn what she needs to if left to her own devices. I spend a lot of time ferrying her to various activities and waiting around for her. I don't feel that we get nearly enough time to do academic stuff, hence enrolling her at Interhigh. It will still be flexible enough that she can keep her HE friendship group and attend a lot of her activities, but it will be an enormous weight off my mind not to be worrying about whether she's getting a balanced education. I've been fairly happy to wing it through the primary level but for me personally, the secondary years are a bit more serious. I don't want her to be disadvantaged by having been HE.

Fideliney · 21/06/2014 13:39

I am very curious about the Wey Academy. It's a free school application isn't it?

OP posts:
Mammuzza · 21/06/2014 15:00

It's a free school application isn't it?

I thought it was. But admit I didn't exactly go over the bumf with a fine tooth comb.

Crabby

I PMed you.

Fideliney · 21/06/2014 15:04

Crabby we also have one at IH. I don't discuss it in depth on board but always happy to discuss with anyone by PM Smile

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Stratter5 · 21/06/2014 15:29

DD1 went to Interhigh, it was excellent, with one exception - they forgot to enter her for her IGCSEs. Having said that, I would use use them again with no hesitation; the level of teaching and the education offered was excellent.

She returned to mainstream school, aced her A levels, and is going very well at Uni.

Mammuzza · 21/06/2014 15:34

Wait .. what.. they enter them for IGCSE ?

I thought we had to find a centre by ourselves.

Have I been winding myself up into a tizz trying to find exam centers and working out all the things you have to fill in and sort out for nothing ?

See... this is why I should stop skim reading stuff people send me.

Did you manage to sort it all out, or was it a no-go until the next session ?

Fideliney · 21/06/2014 15:45

they forgot to enter her for her IGCSEs.

Shock
OP posts:
Stratter5 · 21/06/2014 15:52

Yep, rather a large oversight, but sorted in the end. They entered them when she went there, but this was years ago, she's 21 now

morethanpotatoprints · 21/06/2014 19:38

I'm lost now, sorry.

Is there an organisation that enters H.ed dc for igcse's?

If so, do they have to attend at certain determined times?

Is this online school?

How does it work?

Sorry not an idea, anecdote or experience.
But I am being nice Grin

Stratter5 · 21/06/2014 20:24

Interhigh is an online school; proper structured lessons in virtual classrooms, decent teachers, homework, etc. at least that's what it was like when DD1 used it. They also entered the students for the relevant exams, which they took at a local examination centre.

It may have changed now, it was by far and away the best one; the first one we tried was totally whack, I removed her when she told me they studied shit like dragons

Mammuzza · 21/06/2014 20:48

Sounds much the same as now Stratters

Aside from the exam entering bit that I hadn't heard about. I'll phone and find out. If I remember if the fluster of exam week starting on Monday.

CrabbyBlossomBottom · 22/06/2014 10:07

Mammuzza thank you for your pm, that was very helpful. Will reply fully to that later.

Fideline will pm you too.

This is the Wey Ecademy...
www.weyecademy.com

NickiFury · 22/06/2014 16:09

This is interesting survey of unschooled children

There are two more articles in this series already published and another to come but this first one describes how they conducted the survey.

morethanpotatoprints · 22/06/2014 23:14

Thank you, that was very interesting. I haven't looked at anything like this before.

Its definitely not for dd, too much like school and far too many hours, but for those who this will benefit, it looks good.

I just hope it won't be seen as the norm and legislation move towards only accepting this form of education for all H.ed children.

I'm always a bit sceptical though, just ignore me and thanks for the info

Mammuzza · 22/06/2014 23:22

Well it would be me who hurls the first fly in the nice thread ointment.

I can't say interesting. Well I could. But what I'd mean is "interesting, if interesting means the same as worrying".

It looks like something that somebody will bring up as "evidence" in the comments on CIF comments/public debate forums when HE is the dish of the day. Closely followed by the anti-HEers (on and off piste) pissing themselves laughing about confirmation bias, lack of critical thinking skills etc. and using it as a stick to beat all HEers with.

From the link

Limitation of the Survey

A major limitation of this study, of course, is that the participants are a self-selected sample, not a random sample, of grown unschoolers. As already noted, relatively few men responded to the survey. A bigger problem is that the sample may disproportionately represent those who are most pleased with their unschooling experiences and their subsequent lives. Indeed, it seems quite likely that those who are more pleased about their lives would be more eager to share their experiences, and therefore more likely to respond to the survey, than those who are less pleased. Therefore, this study, by itself, cannot be a basis for strong claims about the experiences and feelings of the whole population of unschoolers.

Quite. Peter Grey, much beloved and so oft quoted by American unschoolers, recruits survey subjects from his blog, which is hosted on a popular magazine that is sometimes confused with an academic journal. The limitations he outlines (set aside what anybody less invested in unschooling might note as limitations) are so ... limiting.. that I am not sure how the positive results he got were anything other than wholly inevitable.

Unschoolers who liked unschooling and still like unschooling follow blog of well known unschooling expert and report good things about unschooling.

I dislike this lack of moving on beyond "here's yet another limited study/survey that was bound to show decent results". It's unintentional, but it can all too easily act as a confirmation of suspicions to anti-HEers, i.e. that "bound by design to get good results" are the only kind of study we like, because it's the only way we can get non scary results.

Unfortunately with it's happy table of results, it is exactly the shiny bit of "evidence" that somebody will be stung into linking to as evidence to support their beliefs. It's not rare for people to link first and read properly later, especially when prodded into providing "proof" of what they claim for their educational choices in a heated debate.

What the study does unambiguously show, however, is that it is possible to take the unschooling route and then go on to a highly satisfying adult life. For the group who responded to our survey, unschooling appears to have been far more advantageous than disadvantageous in their pursuits of higher education, desired careers, and other meaningful life experiences

Except, in the link I can't see where he strongly underlines the limitations in collecting accurate information via a self selecting survey and the difficulties in verifying information received. Or how their protocols set out to validate, confirm, evaluate and rate self reported claims re higher ed, employment, being an entrepreneur. etc.

People over egg and/or lie. They do it about their qualifications and previous work experience when applying for jobs, even when they know there is a risk somebody might try to confirm their claims and sanctions can result if fibbing took place.

On a survey with no sanctions aside from exclusion from results...I'd say the risk was much higher.

On a survey where some may have an emotional need to "support" an educational choice they are practising/intend to practice with their own kids.. I'd say the risk was higher still.

In addition bald terms like higher ed, entrepreneur etc can act like a trap door in terms of what Tilly was talking about. The devil is in the detail.

(ie what she was saying about a number of GCSEs that are almost exclusively in subjects perceived as "soft", "extras" or "non essential" being a different outcome from the same number/grades in maths, english lang, a humanity, a MFL and a DA in science.)

Entrepreneur could mean anything from the next Richard Branson to somebody who opened a shop on Etsy, and after several years has sold three knitted wombs for a total profit of ..$3.50.

Not all Higher Ed is created equal. You can do remedial English and maths at American community colleges as well as courses more comparable with a HNC/D. You can get a good solid degree from a respected American college, but you can also do degrees in subjects like "lay" midwifery that are not recognised as anything like equivalent to a degree by any institution, other than the one flogging offering it.

And that goes back to my point above.

There is a stereotype associated with HE as an educational choice. It can and does occur to people not keen on HE that higher ed/entrepreneur etc. may not be "created equal" with the real world when it is waggled by "fringe types" on paper.

Surveys with inherent issues from the word go make it all too easy for people to say we probably "fudge" the above (instead of providing upfront clarity about what we mean by terms like Higher. ed etc) cos we are afraid of the results if we don't.

So, no, to me more worrying than interesting, because it is deeply, deeply unimpressive as far as the unconvinced are concerned. All while being very vey impressive to somebody quite prone to confirmation bias. And that is a combination I dread when an HE feature (+ a comments section) gets published in an online, quality newspaper and some people get motivated to provide "a study that PROVES it !".

I think one of the positive ways we can combat negative perceptions of HE is by us being automatically critical of anything that smacks of being seductive rather than truly informative. It would send a strong message to the people that measure us and our ilk if we refuse to reward them with clicks+kudos ... just cos the results table looks good.

And then they might redesign their investigations to get us what we need. More realistic results, from more robust studies.

Cos that would be more useful.

I'd rather have less happy clappy tables, but more accurate information at our disposal. It's more helpful in terms of evaluating educational choices for my kid. And would be a lot more useful when combatting negative assumptions. Cos solid studies wouldn't be so prone to getting shot down and then promptly backfiring all over me.

Apologies if this reads as not playing nice as requested. But ... I think sometimes we can nice ourselves into not getting ours hands dirty.

Without poking about in the murky bits (like how we always get lumbered with "preach to choir" studies rather than anything that will give skeptics pause for thought), I don't see how we can isolate specific problems and maybe between us work out some potential solutions to them. Even if the solutions are small and don't offer overnight results.

Mammuzza · 22/06/2014 23:24

oh balls, forgot me reference. My post is re link to study.

morethanpotatoprints · 23/06/2014 00:07

Mammuzza

I haven't read the article yet, and was referring to Wey academy, I intend to read, but can see from your post that I will agree with a lot of what you have said.
The rest will go over my head I'm afraid.

Hey, that was very nice. Nobody has mentioned needing to be a teacher to H.ed yet. Grin

Wey Academy would drive dd up the wall and she doesn't have that kind of time for school or she would be at our local primary.

Mammuzza · 23/06/2014 00:14

Sorry more I posted under you and your interesting, without referencing my interesting. Am somsleepy.

About Weybridge..

I just hope it won't be seen as the norm and legislation move towards only accepting this form of education for all H.ed children.

It has become quite normal in the states. I think at this point pretty much all the states have a public online school.

However, as far as I know, even in that context, where use is reallllly widespread compared to here, it isn't obligatory. Even in states with quite hefty regs.

I would have thought Britian would be a long way behind America in terms of creating generous enough provision of places, let alone enforcing entry into online as the sole alternative to brick schools.

But a question mark over being regged into online as the only alternative to brick in the much longer term is an interesting question worth exploring.

Fideliney · 23/06/2014 00:18

It was a necessary evil for 14-16 to gain IGCSEs in this house more but then by that point we had others in trad school so we were tied to terms etc anyway.

For your DD I can see it would never work.

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morethanpotatoprints · 23/06/2014 01:18

Fideliney

Even though it isn't for us, I do think it should be there for those who need it, most definitely. If the worst came to the worst and it was somehow used as a benchmark for all H.ed dc then that bridge would have to be crossed then. Choice has to be the most important factor for H.ed and it was your/ dc choice to be respected. Thanks

Fideliney · 23/06/2014 01:27

I haven't forgotten Badman. And I won't. I'm as nervous of benchmarks and templates as you are.

OP posts:
Fideliney · 23/06/2014 01:28

I think it is the state funding that worries me TBH.

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Fideliney · 23/06/2014 01:36

Sorry I'm being so succinct I must sound mysterious. My DC were primary aged HE at the time of Badman. I have no doubt what he would have thought of our educational approach then despite glowing approval from our LEA.

For a lot of DC/age groups/circs virtual school rather undermines the point of HE in my mind and I am all too aware that once that option is free (state funded) and widely available the next HE review could attempt to force everyone into that model. I would protest that. Smile

OP posts:
Mammuzza · 23/06/2014 08:36

Weybridge is very much the new kid on the block, and if they get approved, yes, they are something of a game changer. However most of the private online schools have long had a separate branch of their school which receives public funds already. LAs pay to enter ill children and excluded children for example.

So far I haven't come across any HE cases where parents had online forced on them by the backdoor in a context of "take this online place we'll pay for, or it is court for you". But I suppose it could have happen. Where I have seen online being put up as a compromise between sticking with HE and going to court, it's happened in the context of parent V parent, not parents V LA. I have also seen cases where the LA has been very approving of the use of online schools when visiting HEed children and held them up as an example of "good" HE.

What may be worth bearing in mind is how those who use online school have been predicted to become the fastest growing subset of HEers/HSers, maybe becoming the majority in the future. Mainly because online schools opens up HE to huge swathes of people who otherwise would never, ever have chosen it over mainstream ed.

If that comes to pass it could lead to a seismic shift in the overriding perspective/priorities within the HE/HS community. In which case those who choose for reasons that exclude online school could become marginalised in the "voice" that speaks for them in public and with authorities.

Which means if a gov. of tomorrow tried to change regs, hypothetically some HEers could risk get thrown under the bus by other HEers, who share the same label, but have a very different set of "non negociables".

Online school is a much much much easier sell to authorities and the gen pub. Not saying I don't get curly lips and "wtf?" faces, I do. But nothing like to the same degree as when I was "pure" HE. And I anticipate public approval/acceptance of my choices continuing to improve as online loses it's new and unknown qualities. So if a critical mass of HEers using online schools emerges and dominates, it could end up looking like everybody, (gen pub, gov and HE community itself), is onboard with any proposals to make online ed the only acceptable alternative to brick school. Leaving all the other flavours of HEers out in the cold.

But I don't think it is a "anytime soon" potential issue. Off out there in the future, maybe. Cos in the hypothetical there are elements that suggest it does have potential to become one of the more pressing issues for HEers of tomorrow.

I think there are probably ways to future-proof though. I don't think it's a given that "The HE Apocalypse" above will come to pass. Not even if predictions are correct and online does end up taking over as the majority sub-choice within HE.

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