to think you have to be either rich or poor to live in London?

[manicinsomniac]

After another fantastic day in London yesterday I'm in one of regular 'boo hoo hoo, I want to live in London and I'll never be able to' moods.

Please tell me it's possible. Is there anybody in the middle income bracket living there?? (I know logically there must be!) Please tell me how you do it!!

I'm a single parent of 3 children and earn too much to get HB or WTC. There's no way I could pay more than 800 in rent and I'd need a 3 bed house in order not to be squashing my children in for my own selfish reasons (I'd put us all in a 1 bed to be in London if they weren't actual real people!! )

Ugh, it sounds even worse written down - it's not going to happen is it :(

Maybe if I save for a deposit to buy a London house instead of a reasonably priced one then I can eventually become a cool child-free Granny living it up in the capital!

I'm mainly just on a bit of a lighthearted but totally jealous of all you Londoners rant but, on a serious note - is there a danger of our capital city becoming completely out of reach to the majority? Has it happened already?

Most people I know who live there are either very wealthy or single people in houseshares

[Willow33]

London is set apart from the rest of the country with respect to property prices. However there won't ever be much of a drop in prices as there is a lot of wealth in London including international buyers. They tend to buy with cash and centrally but it creates a ripple effect in the rest of the city. I wouldn't hv been able to buy my London flat if it wasnt for
parents helping with the deposit. DH also had a London flat bought many years ago so we were able to pool and buy a house in zone 5. We wanted to stay in London as we are both London born and bred and all our family are here too. I think over time, property will be passed onto the next generation. These children are quite likely to live in these homes or sell them and use the money to buy homes with a lot of equity.. We may see people extending their London homes, where possible, to allow their chn to live at home.

[SilverSixpence]

We are sort of middle income for London but would be high earners elsewhere - in London we live in Zone 4 in a period terrace (3/4 bed but fairly modest). All our neighbours are simple working to middle class folk, many of whom bought their houses years ago when they were very cheap and the area was not considered to be nice. You can't get anything for 800pcm here let alone a 3 bed house

[manicinsomniac]

Pipbin - now there's an idea! Or I could just tell them to move out and make their own way in the world - like the three little pigs! My youngest is almost 2 months old - high time she was independent surely!

[wildswans]

OP - it sounds as though you have the best of both worlds. You are close enough to London to sample its delights but you don't have to live there.

I agree that to enter the market now or otherwise find housing, you need to be relatively well off or poor, but many already living there bought their homes many years ago, as others have said.

I do relate to wanting to be a Granny in town, however, although I am some way off that. I think London is great pre-kids and post kids, but not so great struggling with a baby and a buggy and a load of shopping in a house with no off street parking and where you routinely have to park in the next street. Maybe later....

The other thing which puts me off London is the pollution. When we did move out - not too far but far enough - I kept commenting on how many beautiful starry nights we were having - after a few weeks, the penny dropped, there were no stars to be seen in London because of the smog which enveloped it.

I also like my personal space, which is harder to find in London.

I guess that the grass is always greener. I love London, but when I say London I mean the great landmarks, particularly the Tower, the lovely old buildings in the city, legal London and the inns of court, Covent Garden, Borough Market, the galleries and the West End theatres. If I do go back, or buy a place there to use in retirement, it has to be in zone 1. I don't understand why people are spending such vast amounts to live in the outer zones, which have few of the advantages and most of the disadvantages TBH. It takes as long to get into town from some of these London suburbs as from somewhere outside London with much better quality of life.

[nicename]

We live slap bang in the centre. Its beautiful. I step out my front door to hyde park and see amazing sights every day (some amazing, some just crazy). I would either live here or on a remote hillside far away from everything.

[Quodlibet]

I live in London (zone 2), a 15 min cycle ride from the West Ed. DP and I work in the creative industries; our household income is below the national average and we aren't eligible for any benefits. We did have parental help to buy but before that rented for nearly a decade. Most of our friends are in similar occupations on similar income levels. It can be done, but you have to accept that you just won't have the spending power that many people take for granted. We don't run a car, have sky tv or gym memberships, or pensions. We don't spend loads on going out or on clothes, but we do enjoy cheap local restaurants and all the free culture London has to offer. It takes a creative approach and stepping outside of normal consumer patterns, but there are loads of us living here in London who are neither wealthy nor on benefits.

[Geraldthegiraffe]

But quod you had parental help to buy a while ago. People looking now on average/below average wages without that help are stuck.

[BertieBotts]

Does it have to be London? I would have thought you can get many of the benefits by living in any city and there are loads of great cities in the UK. Cardiff, Birmingham, Manchester, Edinburgh. Even somewhere abroad?

[TitusFlavius]

wildswans you are right about parking being a pain, but where I live, I'd be mad to have a car. I can walk to many of the main attractions, many of my friends walk to work (and are not rich, but live in very small rented flats near the centre), and within ten mins walk of my flat (and most much, much nearer) I have a range of buses, plus the District, Circle, Piccadilly and Central tube lines, and an overground station. I'd be nuts to try and drive around London with this on my doorstep. (And if we want to use a car to go out of London - though tbh I still prefer the train - we can always rent a car. There's incredibly easy rent-a-car firms all over the place.)

It's when you get outside living in a big city that you realise how many people are so very heavily dependent on having a car. I'd hate that.

[NearTheWindymill]

I know a family where the parents (mid 80s now) swapped houses with the elder daughter who mortgaged the "family residence" to go towards the purchase of a similarly valued house for the younger sister to which the parents also contributed. This was all wrapped up in Trust and passed on about ten years ago so now gifted longer than the 7 year IHT rule. Probably more complex than that but everybody "won" and IHT minimised.

I believe the original house may now have been sold for development because it was dated and uneconomical and the site was worth a fortune. It has caused some upset in the family because dd1 has not shared with dd2.

[wildswans]

Titus, I totally agree, but it is difficult on public transport with a baby/toddler, and there is so much paraphernalia if you need to go anywhere. As I said, London is wonderful for pre-kids and when they are older/fled the nest (if they ever do), but not great for the in-between stage.

[MarshaBrady]

I know plenty of middle income people in London. But I live in an up and coming area where everyone I know bought before the prices hiked through the roof.

[mootime]

London is a great place to live with or without kids but it is eye wateringly expensive. We are lucky and live in a decent size house in zone 3 but that's only because we bought a cheap house 12 years ago in an area that completely exploded in price. We moved a mile further out to get space and a garden. But I look at my kids and wonder how they will ever live here unless we sell up and give them a deposit.

OP can you do more day trips? There are loads of free things to do with DC so once you are in London it needn't be too expensive. I know it's not the same, but maybe fun til you are a glamorous metropolitan granny?

[MarshaBrady]

The baby boomer generation was big wasn't it, so as houses become empty is there fewer next generation in comparison? That may help.

[MarshaBrady]

Also international buyers push up prices but they tend to stick to central areas rather than the soon to be empty zone 3 etc

[MarshaBrady]

At the moment it feels so accelerated I find it hard to imagine otherwise. But then in 2007 there was a reduction and I remember thinking woe is us we bought in 2006 at what felt like the top of the market. That was definitely not the top now in SE London.

I now hope it will slow down as opposed to hoping it will step up, but it's hard to imagine the change.

[MarshaBrady]

Interesting Iseen sounds good.