to think you have to be either rich or poor to live in London?

[manicinsomniac]

After another fantastic day in London yesterday I'm in one of regular 'boo hoo hoo, I want to live in London and I'll never be able to' moods.

Please tell me it's possible. Is there anybody in the middle income bracket living there?? (I know logically there must be!) Please tell me how you do it!!

I'm a single parent of 3 children and earn too much to get HB or WTC. There's no way I could pay more than 800 in rent and I'd need a 3 bed house in order not to be squashing my children in for my own selfish reasons (I'd put us all in a 1 bed to be in London if they weren't actual real people!! )

Ugh, it sounds even worse written down - it's not going to happen is it :(

Maybe if I save for a deposit to buy a London house instead of a reasonably priced one then I can eventually become a cool child-free Granny living it up in the capital!

I'm mainly just on a bit of a lighthearted but totally jealous of all you Londoners rant but, on a serious note - is there a danger of our capital city becoming completely out of reach to the majority? Has it happened already?

Most people I know who live there are either very wealthy or single people in houseshares

[Plomino]

I live in Norfolk , but work in London and commute in daily . Yes , I do see people that can be rude and miserable , but tbh aren't they more likely to be some of the thousands of people who spend hours travelling into work , just as much as the people who actually live there ? So that bloke who kneecapped me with his briefcase trolley fucking thing this morning , and then called me a bitch when I accidentally managed to flip it upside down , was actually travelling in from either Cambridgeshire , because he'd got off the fast train in from Cambridge .

It's not only Londoners that can be rude , far flung commuters can be just as bad .

[SocialMediaAddict]

DD goes to outstanding secondary which was a fluke we were in catchment. I had no idea about schools when we bought our house. Twins go to an outstanding primary so we've been lucky.

[SocialMediaAddict]

I live in North London. We wouldn't be able to buy our house now and our mortgage is pretty big. But I've only lived in a 2 mile radius and I love London. I love the buzz on Southbank, the greenery of Hampstead Heath. Everything. My DH wants to leave but his job is London based (thank god!).

Most of my friends are on interest only mortgages, and lot have shared ownership flats.

My SIL rents a two bed in zone 5 and it's £1200 a month so be realistic about prices.

[Pipbin]

Buy to let sales aren't included in the sold price stuff that I can see on Zoopla etc? That's madness. how am I meant to be nosey?

[LancashireTea]

I love London but we're making the decision to move to Hertfordshire so we can afford a 2 bed flat (renting, not buying) on our wages. I'm a teacher and he's in Software, so we earn modest, but not fantastic wages and currently our 1 bed flat in Zone 4 is bleeding us dry (try £1200 a month!). OH is a Croyden boy and I know he is saddened by thoughts of leaving, but if we ever want children we can't afford to live here.

As for a mortgage, well we'd be fine if someone paid the redunculous deposit we'd need.

Every so often i toy with the idea of moving back up North, but know that OH would have a right 'mare getting another job, as well as having to put up with my parents!

[PossumPoo]

Completely off thread, but I went on the new circle line tube this week...I bloody loved it and cant wait until all the tubes are upgraded...

[NearTheWindymill]

The last time I went on the tube I was offered a seat ; I graciously declined it. I'm not that bloody old.

[nicename]

I'm not unfriendly. I'm lovely. Even to tourists at rush hour.

I meet as many rude arses here as I do when I go anywhere else (except Paris and New York, where it really is another level of rudeness).

Prices are merely a matter of basic economics. Yes, our flat 600 miles us the road is twice the size, half the price and the service charge is a tenth of what it is here. But then neither of us could get a job there.

[happybubblebrain]

*Obviously not every person in London is rude and arrogant, but many many are. London is a very unfriendly push and shove place.

I'm sure London is a completely different if you are rich, I imagine lots of people are nice to you then, it being a very money orientated place.

And property prices in London are plain stupid, inflated by at least four times their worth.

[Quodlibet]

Gerald we bought last year, so not long ago, but yes with parental help. I agree without that it can be very very hard.
But I reiterate my point that I know many, many people here on low incomes (but ineligible for HB) who are renting and bringing up kids in zone 2/3/4 London. It isn't easy, and it means hunting for reasonable landlords who aren't hell-bent on screwing every last £ out of their property. These are rare but do exist - before we bought we lived in an incredible flat in Kensington a stone's throw from Hyde Park for £900/m.

[DurhamDurham]

I moved to. London when I was 18, when I became pregnant with our first baby I was living in a house share with friends in Wimbledon. Boyfriend ( now hubby ) was also living with friends in West Hampstead. We could not afford to bring up a baby in London so we moved out to Hertfordshire and then Buckinghamshire when we had our second. I would only want to live in London if I was wealthy. I think it must be an awful place to be if you are poor.

We have since returned to Durham so it all worked out very well in the end

[NigellasDealer]

i am from London and have never found people there to be 'arrogant and rude' any more that anywhere else, in fact less so. would agree about the rush hour tube journeys though.

[NearTheWindymill]

Thanks happybubblebrain. I've lived in London for nearly 35 years and love it but perhaps I'm just one of those arrogant rude people.

[happybubblebrain]

I lived in London and hated it. It's good to visit once in a while, but the reality is arrogant rude people, noise, cramped accomodation, dirt, nightmare tube journeys, overwork, no rest time, and never enough money or time left to really enjoy the London attractions.

I think you need serious money to enjoy living in London. It's far better to live 50+ miles away and travel in every few weeks to make the most of it.

[mewkins]

Ok, my post is totally off topic! I am just trying to reassure op that she's in a good position where she is currently, having the best of both worlds!

[AndSheRose]

I think there are still some affordable houses in the shittier up and coming neighbourhoods in London. More expensive than their counterparts elsewhere but still just about buyable, especially if you look for a fixer-upper etc.

Think of 'unfashionable' postcodes, as postcode can mean a lot to people (and therefore huge difference in price) - dictating if you are in, say, Chiswick or Acton, Shepherds Bush or Holland Park, Blackheath or Lewisham.
Trick is to find an area where the housing stock is ok but the high street still a bit crap - chances are in 5-10 years it will be a different story. Likewise look at places where the schools and/or transport links are currently being invested in - ie they are not great now but in a couple of years they will be a lot better (and prices will shoot up). It takes a leap of faith and a willingness to be in a less desirable pocket for a bit but can be worth it for all the benefits of living in London.

This is how we got in as where we bought was not too nice (although of course even in 'not too nice' places you can build good neighbourly relationships, find decent local spots, jump on the bus to the bourgeois district next door etc) but has improved loads in about 5 years.

As for living in London and whether it's good or not, of course when you live here you are not going to the theatre and sampling top restaurants every night - but advantages which I feel make it a fab place to bring up the DCs:

loads and loads and loads of (often free) culture
a buzz of activity all the time (no 'x isn't open on a Sunday' rubbish)
a hugely diverse and interesting mix of people - and therefore-
an understanding, acceptance and appreciation of differences (note lack of UKIP success in the capital by comparison with rest of country)
a superb and accessible transport network (I have 2 DCs, never had a car, and have never not gone somewhere in London because of it, in fact they love getting the bus, train, tube, DLR, riverboat (ok that last one has never happened but a nice idea no? ). It always strikes me as mildly ironic that people move to the country for the 'freedom and space' for their DCs then they spend so much time strapped into carseats)
something catering for every interest you or your DCs develop
world class parks and green spaces
quick access to the country and coast if you fancy it

I could go on and I know some people will disagree with these points - obviously there are pros and cons - but I think it only fair to stick up for the plus-sides.

[QuintessentiallyQS]

If you dont live in the uk, you pay tax on rental income, unless your property is managed by a UK based business, then the income yield of the rent is included in the corporation tax, based on the profits of the company in general. But there is capital gains tax on the sale of a property if you have not lived in it the last three years, whether you live in the UK or elsewhere. In Norway, the cgt is after just one year. Or is my knowledge outdated?

[MarshaBrady]

Interesting Iseen sounds good.

[MarshaBrady]

At the moment it feels so accelerated I find it hard to imagine otherwise. But then in 2007 there was a reduction and I remember thinking woe is us we bought in 2006 at what felt like the top of the market. That was definitely not the top now in SE London.

I now hope it will slow down as opposed to hoping it will step up, but it's hard to imagine the change.

[MarshaBrady]

Also international buyers push up prices but they tend to stick to central areas rather than the soon to be empty zone 3 etc

[MarshaBrady]

The baby boomer generation was big wasn't it, so as houses become empty is there fewer next generation in comparison? That may help.