to think you have to be either rich or poor to live in London?

[manicinsomniac]

After another fantastic day in London yesterday I'm in one of regular 'boo hoo hoo, I want to live in London and I'll never be able to' moods.

Please tell me it's possible. Is there anybody in the middle income bracket living there?? (I know logically there must be!) Please tell me how you do it!!

I'm a single parent of 3 children and earn too much to get HB or WTC. There's no way I could pay more than 800 in rent and I'd need a 3 bed house in order not to be squashing my children in for my own selfish reasons (I'd put us all in a 1 bed to be in London if they weren't actual real people!! )

Ugh, it sounds even worse written down - it's not going to happen is it :(

Maybe if I save for a deposit to buy a London house instead of a reasonably priced one then I can eventually become a cool child-free Granny living it up in the capital!

I'm mainly just on a bit of a lighthearted but totally jealous of all you Londoners rant but, on a serious note - is there a danger of our capital city becoming completely out of reach to the majority? Has it happened already?

Most people I know who live there are either very wealthy or single people in houseshares

[nicename]

London is also a great place if you don't want your children to grow up as the kid with the funny name, foreign mum/dad, or dark skin. Everyone is from 'somewhere else' around here.

[WorraLiberty]

Yes that's true, we don't own a car because we just don't need one.

I'm between 3 and 10 minutes walk from the local primary, local senior school, doctors, dentist, 2 supermarkets, 2 restaurants, 3 takeaways, 1 off licence, a park with fishing lake, a museum, a library...and a 15 minute bus ride takes me to a huge shopping centre and Romford market.

That's just off the top of my head and without hopping on a train into the city.

[BunsnRosess]

We are not rich or poor. Pay £1200 a month for a lovely 2 bed with garden 25 minutes to covent garden. We are however topped up with housing benefit so actually pay around £850.

[iseenodust]

All those dance classes, exhibitions, etc can be found in say Birmingham too along with the cultural melting-pot. Even our backwater town can provide such plenty of stimulus if you keep you eyes open for it. London is fun but when we've taken DS age9 there he hasn't liked the crowds at all. Have you asked if your DC would like it or is it just your dream?

[KeepingUpAnon]

Squeezed middle-of course I understand on a national scale that people will live in London. If you're born and bred there, you may well want to stay, I get that.

On an individual level though I can't understand people who want to live there for the sake of it, if work isn't an absolute necessity. I hear about things being 'on your doorstep' and all the opportunities and diversity, museums etc. Personally I don't see how the compromises you have to make are worth it is all.

But then I am a Country girl at heart and I can't think of anything worse than living in the centre of a huge city with the dc...courses for horses and all that.

[SqueezedMiddle]

Bitter - Tottenham and Walthamstow are like Stoke Newington 20 years ago, when we first bought. Those areas will improve in many ways, including schools, no doubt, because where middle class families go, they gentrify, they put pressure on local services to improve and they generally kick up a fuss about stuff.

Our road in hackney in 1994 was crack dealer central. In 2014 it is farrow-and-ball painted doors and houses are a million pounds. The local schools are a bunfight to get in to, and the residents association has real power.

And I dont really feel sorry for people moaning about state education in London, to be honest. Poor people, asylum seekers, refugees etc have to go to school, too. You cant live in London and expect your local school to be like the village school.

[FidelineandFumblin]

Yeah - living within walking distance of the tube is the thing that makes the biggest difference in London.

[nicename]

This is also where DH was brought up, so its really his stomping ground. Not sure where else we'd go!

[Littlepinkpear]

I'm the other side of the uk £800 a month more than pays my mortgage, 4 bed detached with double garage and no neighbours within 20m.

However being 15mins from an airport and more than 3 hours by car to the Central belt of Scotland, I happily jump on the 60min budget flight to London with the money I save and use travelodge offers with the kids to spend time there every couple of months.

I have lived all over the UK and London is brilliant for arts and culture. Manchester, Cheshire and the SE are just as expensive and nowhere near as good.

[SqueezedMiddle]

I totally get what youre saying, KeepingUp.

if I wasnt a Londoner and didnt have to move here for work, I might not want to make those choices, either. I probably wouldnt.

For me (as a Londoner) it isnt as clear cut as 'museums and galelries', though. Its feeling like I am part of something bigger, an international city, a place full of opportunity and very diverse. That may sound wanky (sorry!)...but its a very powerful thing. Suburban life would kill me if it werent for the tube down to the South bank in 20 mins. Cant comment on country life, as it scares me

[ILoveCoreyHaim]

You can do all the stuff you mentioned in Newcastle and for £800pm would get a really nice rental, probably be able to live in the city centre and definitely would be able to live in the surrounding areas. I'm a 15 min drive from Newcastle city centre, 10 mins from the metrocentre and a 3 bed with garden and garage is £500pm

[caroldecker]

this is a 3 bed flat on the edgware road for £800 month

[FidelineandFumblin]

And I dont really feel sorry for people moaning about state education in London, to be honest. Poor people, asylum seekers, refugees etc have to go to school, too. You cant live in London and expect your local school to be like the village school.

I beg your pardon squeezed? You think I'm being precious because I'd prefer my DC not to have to walk through a metal detector to get into our local comp?

Maybe I think you are speaking from a position of immense privelege and choice since you have benefitted from two decades of rising London property prices, but hey ho.

[NigellasDealer]

there is a price to pay for the advantages of wherever you live and i do not mean money.

[FidelineandFumblin]

I'm a bit perturbed that you seem to be blaming 'asylum seekers and refugees' for the violence actually.

[MamaLazarou]

We live in zone 3 and are neither rich nor poor. We pay £1000 a month in rent for a 2-bed house with garden in a decent area. We have a good quality of life and don't have to penny-pinch. It helps that council tax is v low in this area. We will never be able to buy a house, but I don't see that as a big deal.

[SqueezedMiddle]

Immense privilege? No. I was brought up in Harlesden, on an estate. My kids go to the local state school, where 80% of children dont have English as a first language, and will attend which ever local comp they get into.

Thats awful that your local comp has a metal detector. I have never heard of that in London before. I thought that sort of draconian measure had been phased out. Are you in Walthamstow?

There are shit schools all over the UK, is my point. Its not a London thing.

[SqueezedMiddle]

I wasnt blaming 'asylum seekers' either. I was making the point that when many people complain about schools in London, they are complaining about the fact that schools are dealing with many different pressures - that schools outside of London maybe dont deal with so often - including having many children who are learning English, who have come from war torn countries etc. They are often good schools, doing the best they can, but who dont play Ofsted's game so well.

[nicename]

I suspect that's actually £800 a week! You'd get a 2 bed in our block (about a mile away further in) for £750 a week.

Its also where the jobs are too. And where your roots are. I could move to another city tomorrow but with no family, friends, roots, job... All a bit scary!

[PossumPoo]

We arent rich or poor but just average

We live very comfortably here, but only have 1 DC and bought before the current madness so our mortgage in zone 3 is considerably less than our rent on a smaller place in zone 2.

Honestly I dont think you'd find anywhere within your budget sorry though.

[FidelineandFumblin]

No - South London - a comprehensive rated outstanding by Ofsted - which now also has its own on-site policeman. I'm sure you could find it if you googled. But my DC have witnessed six serious assaults with weapons in four local schools to date (primary and secondary), one life-threatening, four requiring blue light ambulance. These were all 'good' or 'outstanding' schools. I refuse to accept this as the new normal.

Why did you assume my exasperation with London state education involved refugees? Is north london really that much better?

[FidelineandFumblin]

X post. I see, well it isn't what I mean. I just want my children to be safe.

[KeepingUpAnon]

Anyone willingly paying £750 a week for a two bed flat just boggles my mind.
For that money here you'd be looking at an 8 bed detached mansion with 5 acres of garden and an indoor swimming pool :/

[MrsChickPea]

We don't live in central London. About 30 mins by slow train away. Someone I know has just sold their small 1st floor (over a dry cleaners/Chinese restaurant) 2 bed flat for £380,000. House prices are mad!

[FidelineandFumblin]

Oh dear. I hope I at least made you feel better about your local schools OP