to remind everyone that socket covers are dangerous!

[insertrandomnamehere]

Did a search and couldn't find a post on this topic for a couple of years so in case people still don't realise...

If you use Child safety socket covers, get rid of them! They are dangerous and they actually make sockets more dangerous not less.

Socket covers are completely unnecessary and could potentially cause a fatal accident. UK plug sockets are designed with shutters to prevent anything except a UK plug being inserted into the socket. It is extremely unlikely that a young child would be able to open these shutters, as the child would have to insert something of exactly the right size into the earth pin. This is not possible with real plugs. But socket covers hold these shutters open and introduce a range of new dangers.

Unlike real plugs, the various design faults of socket covers allow a curious child to insert them (upside down) into the earth pin only. On many sockets this opens the safety shutters and allows children access to the live contacts!

If you have these at home, please take a few minutes to read the national campaign calling for the banning of socket covers: www.fatallyflawed.org.uk

I find it hard to credit that someone who lives in Australia would query British experts talking about British plugs! It looks to me like all pages on their website clearly say that the information applies to BS1363 only. My OH tells me that aussie plugs are completely different.

Clack - I'm NOT!!
I was just trying to suggest that showing a comparison of the different levels of risk would be a simple way to make the point!! Why is that so strange? I didn't know she didn't have those stats!
There just seemed to be a lot of pointless arguing and I assumed that there would be some data that would clearly show that using covers is more dangerous than not using covers - seems like a logical assumption to me.
Also, having had both my babies in the UK it's not like this was never something relevant to me.

there is no data, there are simple explanations. The situation only applies to British plugs but it is explained in junior school terms on fatallyflawed. It doesn't need further proof!

there is no data showing that if you drop something while standing on the surface of earth it will fall, it is just obvious.

Surfsup1, thank you for clarifying.

It would be great if everything could be solved by statistics, but when no one collects those statistics it is simply not something that helps.

What is much more important than statistics is facts:

1. No responsible UK national body recommends the use of socket covers.

1. There is no evidence to suggest that UK sockets, designed specifically to protect children, fail to do so.

1. Socket covers are not subject to any UK (or European) standards.

1. There are no socket covers which are the correct size for safe use with UK sockets.

Wouldn't it be helpful if MN took this problem on as a campaign? We need to make sure that all parents know this.

Surely the problem of being able to release the shutters using the socket cover is easily replicated using a plug inserted upside down? The earth pin goes in just far enough to release the shutters and hold the plug in place while a suitable key, hairgrip or other pokey metal object is inserted.

Am I missing the point somewhere?

Like MN are going to that? it would upset the sponsors too much, LOL

grandad I think in theory you shouldn't be able to insert either upside down as the lower pins should get in the way. In practice, socket covers are not always the correct size or strength to ensure this is true.

GrandadGrumps, if the child is old enough and bright enough to do that, they are probably also capable of taking out the screws and removing the socket to get at the wires. But they are, by then, also old enough to be taught that it is actually not a good idea. I think that we should be more concerned with the little ones who are still using mainly one hand while the other provides stability. In case some of us have forgotten how crawling babies do things, the two videos on our website (both found on YouTube) which show babies removing socket covers provide a useful reminder.

dipeploe, Great idea, we have asked on a number of occasions, but the answer has always been NO, or simply no reply.

grandad you can't insert a plug upside down in UK sockets, they are designed that way. They are indeed large enough that the other prongs stop you doing it. (go try!)

you CAN do it on some older extension leads, which are not wide enough to stop it. No, a socket cover is not what you want there, because kids can take them out and put them in upside down too. So older narrow extension leads should not be used where small children can reach them.

check yours if in doubt.

I've just tried it on 4 different sockets, using a different plug in every socket and it seems every bit as easy to stick a plug in upside down as it would be to stick a socket cover in upside down. The plug stays there in exactly the same way as the cover in the picture on the FatallyFlawed website does. www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/assets/images/Exposed_Side.jpg

I've a particular interest in this, having electrocuted myself at around 4 YO by poking a key into a socket.

I've tried it grandad. It stay in place but shutters aren't open. It doesn't go in far enough. But I can see that a socket cover with a bit of flex in it might.

The shutters aren't 'open' but they're released so that anything can be inserted easily - which is what the danger is to start with. I've got sockets here varying in age between 2 and 30 years and they all release the lock on the shutters if a plug's inserted upside down - and the plug stays in place.

Most sockets do not allow that to happen, there are a few which do, but it is not a stable situation and the plug is unlikely to stay there for very long, especially if knocked by a baby's hand as it then explores the socket. It is also worth bearing in mind that an upside down plug with the cable sticking up in the air is rather obvious compared to an inverted socket cover, which, being flexible, will always go in further, and will tend to stay there because of the pressures exerted by the flexing of the cover.

I note what you said about being 4 when you had your shock (clearly you did not actually electrocute yourself as you claim because you are obviously still alive). As well as being able to stick in the key you would have undoubtedly been able to remove a socket cover at that age, had they existed. You did not say what sort of socket you stuck the key into, but I would guess that it was an old round pin type without shutters, interestingly socket cover makers do not bother to make covers for those!

For any parents who do not feel sufficient confidence in the safety of their sockets, the solution is not to risk using socket covers, but fit even better sockets. There are at least three makes (MK, Hager Solysta, and Legrand Synergy) in which the shutters will only open if all three pins are inserted simultaneously, you will find at least one of those at DIY stores.

can't do it in my house, although I'm not going to try forcing plugs in upside down. All the sockets I've tried are simply too big.

Most sockets do not allow that to happen, there are a few which do - every socket in my house, at least 4 different types, installed at different times over the last 30 years.

I don't think I've ever seen a round-pin socket in use - my incident happened in a newly renovated house in about 1970 and I think it involved several keys, so presumably I was able to stick one in the earth socket and one in one of the others.

It's true that I would have presumably been able to remove a socket cover - but then that's the point isn't it? It's only children who are able to remove and then re-insert the socket cover who are at risk from that anyway.

I think the advice in your last paragraph is what you should be stressing, rather than claiming that existing sockets are safe when they're probably not - based on my admittedly non-scientific sample of all the sockets in my house.

I found one that won't allow it - an MK socket that's at least 20 years old.

As I said in my post last Tuesday "The biggest issue is actually the permanent damage which can be caused to a socket by the insertion of anything which is not the right size, and one thing that can be proved irrefutable by anyone who measures a socket cover is that there are NONE which conform to the size and shape specified for a plug."

In practice we have heard from a number of people about children who have removed socket covers and reinserted them inverted, we have never heard of a child doing that with a plug. That is, of course, not a scientific survey, but it is some indication of probability.

There are a number of interesting quotes to be found on this page of our website:
www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/html/pro_feedback.html

Regarding the MK socket, a 20+ years old MK socket almost certainly uses the two-pin method (since replaced by the three pin method). In such a socket the earth pin plays no part in the operation of the shutters, poking something into either of the other two apertures will also not release the shutters, they are only opened by the simultaneous insertion of the line and neutral pins (and I do mean actual plug pins, the shape is important).

thank you for this - I often want to post about coats and carseats after learning about that but worry about backlash - grateful to have someone teach me something new!

Regarding the MK socket, a 20+ years old MK socket almost certainly uses the two-pin method You're right, I've just checked and it does - although I've got several sockets of the same sort of age in the house which do have the shutters operated by the earth pin.

(I do mean actual plug pins, the shape is important) - not as important as you might think - I've just done it with the prong from the cap of a biro and the plastic ink tube from the same pen. Presumably this is what I did with 2 keys 44 years ago.

I can see why you wouldn't have heard of children inserting plugs incorrectly, can't you? Your campaign isn't to do with incorrectly inserted plugs after all, it's to do with socket covers.

I think the important thing to learn from this is that it's far too easy to assume that sockets are safe. These socket covers obviously make them more dangerous but to campaign against the covers while trumpeting the safety of the standard sockets seems to me to be a bit irresponsible. My own experience has proved that even quite small children can easily circumvent the standard safety features on many sockets.

If sockets are widely available which require all 3 pins to be inserted simultaneously then they're obviously far safer than the standard sockets - particularly with slightly older children in the house, rather than only babies. Shouldn't their fitting be promoted as a much better alternative to safety covers - rather than just claiming that the standard sockets are safe, when they're clearly not as safe as they could be? The only mention I could quickly find of these 3 pin operation sockets on the FatallyFlawed website though is on a page titled 'socket damage', whereas the safety of the standard sockets is trumpeted on the front page of the site. I must admit that I'd never heard of these sockets at all and I think they sound like a huge safety improvement (assuming that I wasn't the only child who ever worked out that you could stick 2 keys into a plug socket - I was a particularly odd child though).

GrandadGrumps, I understand why you make those comments, but on balance we do not believe that we should do as you suggest.

Both of the founders of FatallyFlawed have chosen to have MK sockets in their houses, and both have been responsible for specifying their use in new church buildings which have a high usage by children. That having been said, we do not feel there are grounds for suggesting that sockets with earth pin operated shutters are unsafe in any practical sense, and there is no evidence to justify undue concern. We would say that if you have the chance to influence an installation, then it makes sense to fit the best you can get.

I have spoken to relevant authorities about the possibility of requiring all new domestic installations to use sockets with the three pin method, but that is not going to happen in the foreseeable future, not least because the available sockets all use (different) patented techniques which are not available to other manufacturers.

As a non-profit organisation which does not accept any sponsorship it would also be wrong for us to give the impression that we were promoting any particular company or companies when other manufacturers make products which fully meet the standard.

Of course, if we were aware of any practical, rather than theoretical, concern about the safety of compliant sockets we would make that clear, as we have done our concern about the safety of extension covers which allow full insertion of the earth pin only because of a loophole in the standard.

Just spotted a typo in the last paragraph above, this should read:
"Of course, if we were aware of any practical, rather than theoretical, concern about the safety of compliant sockets we would make that clear, as we have done our concern about the safety of extension sockets which allow full insertion of the earth pin only because of a loophole in the standard."

Oh Lordy, Specialsubject - I really don;t want to have to keep defending myself here! I wasn't attacking Fatallyflawed and nor do I have difficulty understanding the simple science which has been provided to show the potential risk.

My point was also pretty simple I think. i.e if you want to change peoples' stubborn attitudes on this sort of matter, it is very helpful to be able to show that the risks involved are real and not just hypothetical or scientifically "possible".

It's a shame these statistics aren't available. I didn't know the statistics were unavailable. I didn't ask about the statistics as a means of attacking FF's campaign.

Now can people please stop acting like I called the whole think BS!?

I am delighted to report that the NHS has at last grasped the unsafety these socket covers provide, and has issued an alert.

"This Alert is issued to highlight how, in certain circumstances, the use of plastic 13A (13 amp) electrical socket inserts (sold as safety accessories) can overcome the safety features designed into socket outlets.

13A electrical socket inserts should not be used in health or social care premises, nor supplied for use in a home or residence. Any socket inserts currently in use should be withdrawn from use and responsibly disposed of."
www.cas.dh.gov.uk/ViewandAcknowledgment/ViewAlert.aspx?AlertID=102494

Sadly LIDL are continuing to sell the things and responded to my letter of complaint with a numbskull fob-off.