to not see the problem with banning schoolkids from the shopping centre?

[Vintagejazz]

A friend of mine has steam coming out of her ears because her child's school has made a rule that children in uniform cannot go into the shopping centre down the road from the school. She's banging on about it being an infringement of her teenager's rights.
Personally my sympathies are with the school and the shop owners. Up until recently gangs of teenagers used to descend on the centre at lunchtime and from 4pm - pushing, shoving, shouting, tearing around and knocking into people, and daring each other to steal things. A lot of people started avoiding the place at those times, which can't have been good for business.
I imagine the school also got the brunt of the complaints from annoyed shopowners and shoppers.

So AIBU to think she should stop going on about her DD's rights, and show some sympathy for the business owners being driven demented by gangs of badly behaved school kids?

[BoffinMum]

The elephant in the room here is that there are few places they can go and cotch together.

[EvansOvalPiesYumYum]

they should not be in a shopping centre every day anyway, what a pointless waste of time. They need to be outside getting some fresh air and doing something productive rather than wandering round wasting time and money looking at useless crap in shops.

Couldn't the same be said, then, of every other person in that shopping centre? Then you'd have an empty shopping centre which would close down.
Why is everyone else there wasting time and money and looking at useless crap, I wonder????? Is this something only adults are allowed to do?

[DurhamDurham]

My youngest daughter is 16, at her school they are actively encouraged to go out on a lunch time at sixth form as the school cannot cater for everyone at lunch time. If she was banned from the local shopping centre she would have nowhere to go. The school children must spend a fortune in the shops/cafes on a lunch time., probalby helping some businesses to survive.

There would be an outcry if any other members of our community were banned from public places. Not all teens hang out in packs and steal or cause chaos.

[Topseyt]

One of the local shops in our village has a rule which says "no more than 4 children in school uniform to be in the shop at any one time". It seems to work, and I suppose it gives them more chance of seeing any misbehaviour, and also of catching it on their CCTV system.

[Joules68]

So this is school children age 5 to 18 in uniform then?

Or just the teenagers?

[NurseyWursey]

ASDA banned us when I was at school. Was annoying because I never bloody stole.

[NurseyWursey]

And thoroughly agree with amberleaf

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

She is a bit daft to assert that schoolchildren have a right to go shopping - I don't think that is a basic human right for anyone to mooch around a shopping centre. If they were being banned from the only place they could buy food, it would be a bit different, but they aren't.

And if they'd behaved themselves, or stopped their classmates from behaving badly, they wouldn't be banned.

No sympathy from me.

[EvansOvalPiesYumYum]

Last time I looked, we live in a democratic country, so of course they have a right to go shopping. Why wouldn't they? If they are behaving well and not causing trouble, they have every right. It is not a military base that has been cordoned off to every member of the public, nor an office that requires an ID card to allow you in for a meeting. It is a public place, to admit members of the public. Teenagers are members of the public, thus have a right to enter said public place.

Stopping ALL those teenagers on the basis that a few have behaved badly is undoubtable discrimination,

[Vintagejazz]

Punishing a whole group because of the actions of the minority is always wrong regardless of the common age of that group.[quote]


But that happens all the time in life. For instance, they introduced a rule in my last workplace that anyone out sick on a Monday or a Friday had to have a doctor's cert. This was because a number of employees were abusing sick leave regulations to take nice long weekends. As a result, everyone then had to go to the expense of a visit to the doctor's (not cheap here in Ireland) to get a cert if they happened to be ill on those two days.
It's annoying and unfair, but it's often the only way of dealing with a problem. It also teaches young people that their behaviour impacts on others.

[EvansOvalPiesYumYum]

Some of those young people don't need to be taught that, though, Vintage. This is the whole point - the majority already know how to behave well and do so, but they are being punished because of the actions of a few. Banning them all from a public place is wrong. Blanket punishments are not always very effective, and can, in fact, build up more resentment.

[Vintagejazz]

I know it's not always fair, but it happens throughout life. It's often the only practical way to deal with a situation. There are many irritating rules and regulations that we all have to abide for, which were really only introduced to curb the behaviour of an irresponsible minority.

[thebodydoestricks]

Another reason why school uniforms are bloody stupid.

They would be far more identifiable on CCTV in their own clothes and able to be caught and dealt with.

Can never for the life of me understand this tradition we have here for dressing teenagers the same.

I also think it psychological too. Teens act more daft in gangs and gangs dress alike.

[EvansOvalPiesYumYum]

LouiseAderyn made the point above that if one woman with a buggy shoplifted so no women with buggies would be allowed in, that would not be tolerated.

Just suppose a black male was staggering around drunk and making a nuisance of himself, would that mean that all black people should be banned from that place? No, of course not, because that would be discriminatory and against the law. That person would be viewed as just one person being a nuisance. He is not representative of an entire swathe of the community, any more than the one woman with a buggy who might have been caught shoplifting. Both instances would be intolerable and unacceptable.

Therefore, not all teenagers should be viewed as troublemakers just because a few of them are not able to behave well. It is intolerable and unacceptable. It is an entire chunk of the community being discriminated against. Not on.

[EvansOvalPiesYumYum]

From the shopping centre's viewpoint, I would say that the school uniform would actually be helpful in identifying any troublemakers. At least they can pinpoint it to the school and narrow down the list of suspects.

[EvansOvalPiesYumYum]

I also disagree with school uniforms being stupid - they keep everyone the same. Otherwise you'd have some kids going to school in expensive designer gear, others who's parents can't afford to buy the same expensive clothes, bullying becomes more prevalent - etc, etc etc.

Another discussion for another thread, I think.

[EvansOvalPiesYumYum]

Can never for the life of me understand this tradition we have here for dressing teenagers the same.

If they don't wear uniform, the majority of them dress the same anyway. My friend and I said this the other day, in the pub over the Easter break - a group of youngsters came in, boys and girls. All the boys were dressed the same, with the same haircuts, all the girls were dressed the same, with the same hairstyle. Same length, all straightened. They all look the same as each other. School uniform has no part to play in that

[Vintagejazz]

I don't get the 'discrimination' argument. It is the school, not the shopping centre, that is banning the children going there while wearing their uniform.

[LouiseAderyn]

It's not a basic human right to go shopping but freedom of movement ( so long as no law is being broken) is important.

[Nocomet]

As a 100% honest teenager this would have made me fume and I would have made a point of visiting the shopping centre every single day after school.

It makes me incredibly angry that all teens (I now have two of my own) are thought off as shop lifting, noisy trouble makers.

Those who are should be dealt with, so that towns are made a nicer place for everyone else.

[Zucker]

Tends to be people who don't actually have any teenage children that agree with these broad bans on them in cafes/shopping centres/wherever. Where are they supposed to go then?

[EvansOvalPiesYumYum]

I would think, then, that the school has decided this to disassociate itself from complaints from the shopping centre? Maybe they don't want the shopping centre to be able to identify their pupils?

Has the school given a reason why uniforms shouldn't be allowed in the shopping centre? Have they said it's because they've received complaints?

If the youngsters want to go into the centre for their lunch, do they have to take a lunchtime change of clothes to school? That would be very silly if that were the case, and I'm still with your friend in saying that is an infringement of the youngsters' rights.

[TheRealMaryMillington]

I think its totally unreasonable and panders to all the horrible and damaging misperceptions of teenagers being "trouble".

There are few enough places where kids can go or feel welcome and safe these days, why make it worse?

[EvansOvalPiesYumYum]

Exactly, Zucker! All you Mums with young children now, don't forget, before you know it, they will have grown into teenagers. I wonder how you will feel then, when you can't move around freely because they've all been banned because of the actions of the minority of their peers.

[NurseyWursey]

I know it's not always fair, but it happens throughout life. It's often the only practical way to deal with a situation. There are many irritating rules and regulations that we all have to abide for, which were really only introduced to curb the behaviour of an irresponsible minority

Sorry but no, a blanket ban on a certain group of individuals is not on if that group contains innocent people.