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AIBU?

to not see the problem with banning schoolkids from the shopping centre?

143 replies

Vintagejazz · 24/04/2014 13:43

A friend of mine has steam coming out of her ears because her child's school has made a rule that children in uniform cannot go into the shopping centre down the road from the school. She's banging on about it being an infringement of her teenager's rights.
Personally my sympathies are with the school and the shop owners. Up until recently gangs of teenagers used to descend on the centre at lunchtime and from 4pm - pushing, shoving, shouting, tearing around and knocking into people, and daring each other to steal things. A lot of people started avoiding the place at those times, which can't have been good for business.
I imagine the school also got the brunt of the complaints from annoyed shopowners and shoppers.

So AIBU to think she should stop going on about her DD's rights, and show some sympathy for the business owners being driven demented by gangs of badly behaved school kids?

OP posts:
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EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 26/04/2014 15:31

We live in a horrible town - it was apparently listed in a newspaper several years ago as one of the worst towns in Britain! So no, not a particularly "naice" place.

If our police force are not behaving as they should, then I (we, many of us) would complain about it. We haven't had to, thankfully, because they're pretty good. I think if you are having such trouble with your police force, as you claim, it really, seriously needs to be dealt with and perhaps a couple of letters to your MP would be in order, so it can be addressed. If your police team are not able to respond to a call, there is something very seriously wrong in your community.

In any event, I don't think this is part of the problem in the OP. I simply think the school (ie, the Principal) is trying to pass the buck. If those same pupils take a change of clothes to school, go into the shopping centre in their civvies and cause trouble, then the school doesn't have to deal with the backlash, because they're not wearing uniform. Doesn't solve the problem of the badly-behaved pupils at all, just the school washing their hands of it all because they can't be bothered.

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greenwinter · 26/04/2014 13:35

People have made complaints to the police. Nothing really changes. There is I suspect a big difference if you live in a high crime area, to those living in a low crime area.

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EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 26/04/2014 13:14

Then you need to make a complaint to and about your police force, Greenwinter, as they have to respond. They have no choice, and if they are refusing, that is an issue that you, as a law-abiding member of the public, needs to have addressed by your local police.

And you "will only say it once more" - really? I so hope you're not trying to threaten me (I'm sure you're not). I feel pretty certain you will need to say it again, same as I, along with others, have said many things again and again and again and again and again, where people simply refuse to digest.

You cannot, I repeat, cannot - discriminate against an entire section of the community because of the bad behaviour of a few. I feel like saying "I will say zis only once", but of course, I can't, because not everyone seems to understand it, so it will be repeated ad infinitum (or indeed, ad nauseam)

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greenwinter · 26/04/2014 12:46

Evans - I will only say it once more, because where I live the police don't do anything. Young people hanging about outside a shop being loud and swearing is a very very low priority where I live and the police are not interested. Most shopkeepers cant get the police to come out for low value shoplifting, never mind something like this. So small shopkeepers have to come up with their own solutions.

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EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 26/04/2014 12:25

Greenwinter - I don't agree. If a shop owner is experiencing difficulties with gangs of yoofs misbehaving, then call the police. What would that same shopkeeper do if it was a group of drunken, badly behaved men outside his/her shop? Call the police, I expect.

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EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 26/04/2014 12:22

Society regularly does this. I'm sure there are many many 15 and 16 year olds who would make responsible drivers but we don't let them behind the wheel of a car.

What???
That comment is relevant to this debate because . . . . . .
(I'm a little bewildered)

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sashh · 26/04/2014 12:03

Imagine saying that about any other group in society. For example if you said that a woman with a buggy once used it to shop lift and therefore no women with buggies were allowed in the shops.

More like a group of 10 - 15 women all with buggies all in identical clothing, so you ban anyone wearing that clothing.

It's a common rule and since when has 'shopping' been a right?

Oh and what's to stop them taking a change of clothes to school with them?

Yet you're happy for them to all be discriminated against, because of the actions of a few

Society regularly does this. I'm sure there are many many 15 and 16 year olds who would make responsible drivers but we don't let them behind the wheel of a car.

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greenwinter · 26/04/2014 12:01

No I don't think any posters are implying that Evans. They just understand how difficult an issue this can be for businesses to deal with.

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EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 26/04/2014 11:59

And actually, Greenwinter lots of posters have implied that all teenagers are bad. Simply by suggesting a blanket ban on all teenagers implies that they feel there are no great teenagers. So you are quite wrong in your assumption, there.

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EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 26/04/2014 11:49

And NOBODY on this thread has said or even implied that there aren't lots of great teenagers

Yet you're happy for them to all be discriminated against, because of the actions of a few

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greenwinter · 26/04/2014 11:42

And NOBODY on this thread has said or even implied that there aren't lots of great teenagers.

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greenwinter · 26/04/2014 11:41

I am not supporting a ban from a shopping centre. I am saying I understand why shops ban teenagers. Sure I knwo about the Public Order Act. All I can say is that you must live in a low crime area for the police to respond so well to these kind of low level offences. Where I live, they just say they can't do anything and send a CSO round to visit you. That is why shops ban teenagers, as they don't know what else to do to stop their business going under.

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EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 26/04/2014 11:19

Greenwinter:

If you are in a public place and you do or say something that is likely to cause any person alarm, harassment or distress then you are committing an offence contrary to Section 5 of the Public Order Act

So spitting, swearing, causing obstruction - all are offences.

And I'm so pleased you have acknowledged that there are plenty of great teenagers. Why, therefore, should they be discriminated against?
No other section of society would put up with this without a fight.

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greenwinter · 26/04/2014 09:28

Of course there are plenty of great teenagers, no one is denying that.

Hanging outside a shop, swearing and being loud, is something the police are rarely interested in where I live. For one, it isn't actually an offence to hang around like that, although it does put customers off. All the police say they can do is talk to them, or move them on occasionally.

I am shocked that the police responded to your call within minutes. Maybe you live in a naice middle class area where the police are less busy?

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EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 25/04/2014 20:08

Humans are really good at forming stereotypes and impressions, aren't they?

Tilly - you are so right! And I think we are all probably guilty of it to some extent, though many of us try desperately hard not to

Summer and Winter (?) - have you read Tilly's posts? Very wise words, if I may say.

I think some people just don't want to face reality.
It makes me very sad that some people can totally dismiss an entire section of a community because of the bad actions of a few. No-one is disputing the fact that some teenagers are a bloody nuisance, because some of them are, undoubtedly. What many posters have expressed (but other posters are refusing to accept) is that it is grossly unfair to label ALL teenagers in the same way.
You simply cannot issue a blanket punishment because of the bad actions of a few.

I've had problems with a group of youngsters outside our house some years ago. I initially tackled them myself, had to call the police who were here within minutes and were very helpful indeed. So don't quite understand your point there, Greenwinter.

Had problems with some youngsters, but I don't dislike all youngsters because of that incident. Those particular ones I wouldn't allow into my house, but many others are most welcome.

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greenwinter · 25/04/2014 18:00

Summer - Some people just don't want to face reality.

When my friend was having problems with a gang of people hanging outside of her baby shop and putting people off going inside, it wasn't middle aged adults that were doing it. It was a group of young people who hung about there swearing loudly and messing around.

And to those who suggest calling the police. Have you actually ever tried to call the police because a group of young people are spending all of Saturday hanging outside of your shop being loud and swearing? Lets just say it is not a high priority for them to deal with. The very best outcome you will get is a CPO visiting you a few days later.

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Summerbreezing · 25/04/2014 17:51

The principal barred them from going to the Shopping Centre because she was envious of them?
My friend whose business was being damaged banned them because he was jealous he's no longer young?

Seriously Hmm

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tb · 25/04/2014 15:49

Where I used to live the pupils from the local comp were banned from Boots, Booths and Martins the newsagents on a regular basis for bad behaviour including shoplifting.

They also used to congregate on the benches just outside the entrance to Booths f-ing and blinding at the top of their voices. While 'very concerned' if you rang the school, they never ever returned phone calls.

Basically, I don't think they, the school, could have cared less.

We left the area rather than have dd go there.

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MistressDeeCee · 25/04/2014 15:41

I cant understand why, because SOME teenagers are bad , all must be punished? It smacks of envy of youth - some people forget they were once young. Or are jealous that they're no longer young.

I can't fathom why anybody could think the 'label one label all' mentality has anything fair about it. & rubbish behaviour is not the sole remit of youth.

Silly attitude

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TillyTellTale · 25/04/2014 15:12

Evans Humans are really good at forming stereotypes and impressions, aren't they? It's like finding out you're pregnant with twins- you suddenly see twins everywhere and it seems like there's been a twin boom. Actually, you just didn't notice them when you had no especial interest.

A few months back, my FIL announced that "90% of the mobile phone calls" that he overheard in the town centre weren't in English. What he means is, he notices the people on the phone who aren't speaking English! I am sure of it, because as it happens, I am a languages enthusiast who listens out for non-English phone calls, because I like trying to identify the language! I also spend far more time in town than he does, because I live in the centre.

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Summerbreezing · 25/04/2014 15:12

I meant to add that most of them grow out of it pretty quickly once they leave school.

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Summerbreezing · 25/04/2014 15:11

I take your point Tilly, but just going on my own experience I really don't believe it's a knee jerk reaction to teenagers. Even looking back to when myself and my friends were that age, I really don't think we realised how loud we were, or how standing around in big groups was getting in other people's way etc. I think part of growing up is going through those self absorbed, desperate to be cool and one of the gang, years - and it does lead to more general bad behaviour from that age group. Obviously not all teenagers behave like that, but a sufficient number do to create a certain prejudiced view of them.

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Summerbreezing · 25/04/2014 15:06

My goodness you're rude Evans.

A hypothetical argument still has to have some basis in reality,which is the point I was trying to make.

Anyhow, I too feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall where you're concerned so perhaps we'd better leave it and agree to disagree. Otherwise we're both going to have one mighty headache tonight.

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EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 25/04/2014 15:01

It will be "bloody old bat on the bus". And thus it seems as if middle-aged to elderly women are abusing fellow bus passengers in their masses

I have argued exactly the same point on another thread Tilly - people calling people over a certain age "old bats" or "old bags" as though they have no right to exist.
Just as annoying as this thread. I cannot understand why or how some people can completely dismiss an entire swathe of a community based on one or two actions of a few bad apples.

Most bewildering

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EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 25/04/2014 14:48

Good for you, Angels. But what a shame that you had to go to such lengths - disgraceful.

Just reinforces the argument against blanket-banning.

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