To not accommodate a request by a female Muslim never to be in work "alone" with any male colleague?

[LibertyPrints]

"Sarah" has worked with our company since December. We have 12 staff (some of whom are part time) across 2 sites. All staff work between the 2 sites. They are retail outlets.

Sarah is Muslim and has recently contacted me to ask if I can ensure she is not ever scheduled to be alone with any male colleague at either site stating this is to do with her religious beliefs.

The manager is male and 3 staff are male. Different staff have different skill levels and they are scheduled where they are best utilised on any given day/week and so that all shifts are pretty equally shared out. It is not practical to agree to this.

For clarity I have no issue with making adjustments for her where I can. For example she asked at interview if she could reduce her lunch hour by varying amounts and then take that extra time out when she wanted to pray at varying times of the day. Even though we don't normally allow breaks to be taken in this way I agreed willingly.

I feel really awkward saying no but it's really far from ideal. AIBU to think if she can't expect this from us?

Lots of reasonable advice on here, most of it based on the fact that MN posters are equally reasonable

Let's just hope the employee will share this quality and doesn't turn out to have other motives ...

Perhaps not molly but several others have.

And the onus is on the employee to leave if the refusal of her flexible working request renders her employment untenable.

It would be grossly unfair to dismiss her just for asking.

I'm wondering if she has been harassed or had problems with one or two of the male staff, doesn't think she will get taken seriously if she complains, possibly because they are or are friends with the male management, and thinks this might be a way to get assigned shifts without the offender?

Might be worth asking if there's a particular man she is trying to avoid, given it doesn't look possible to avoid all men on her shifts.

Puzzledandpissedoff MN is self-selected to be chock full of reasonable people!

i'm curious....does she also wear a headscarf? Just wondering because that is also a requirement and if she is choosing to be devout then she should be wearing a headscarf.

For legal purposes check with the appropriate authorities.

For a general/personal experience viewpoint you could try posting in 'The Muslim Tearoom' thread over in the Philosophy/Religion room. There are lots of professional and employed women posting in that thread and they may be able to offer you some advice on how to manage this situation and employee.

My personal opinion is that she should have mentioned it at interview stage, seeing as religion is a big part of her life and this cannot have been the first time she has found herself in this situation. However, you have already proven that you are willing to make accommodations for her religious belief where possible (regards the prayer times) and it is perfectly acceptable for you to say no to this request if it cannot be accommodated due to staffing levels etc. I would also ask her how this was dealt with in her previous places of employment.

Good luck and keep us updated, i'm interested to know how a situation like this is managed as i've never come across it before in all my years of working.

Wow, what a lot of fairly horrid views I have come across whilst reading this thread. Why are so many of you talking about law and tribunals and so on. The girl just asked if she could work shifts where there are no men. Someone earlier suggested laughing in her face at such a request and another person talked about what a load of mumbo jumbo it all is. All the Op needs to do is sit with her for a few minutes and show her how it is logistically tricky to do though she wishes she could do more to help. What a horrible amount of people who are calling for her to be dismissed.

It seems to me that there are an awful lot of people on here who don't like Muslims very much, or rather they don't mind them as long as they don't try to practice any of their beliefs. How sad that you expect everyone to be the same as you.

russianblu i think a lot of people have reacted out of ignorance and fear....which is a shame. I come from a muslim background ( and i have never come across a situation like this in the workplace) so i am able to have a little more understanding and empathy for both the employer and the employee. As a poster has mentioned up-thread, we - as in WE WOMEN have been fighting for and are still fighting a long battle towards being treated as equals in this patriarchal society and world of ours, and we do ourselves no favors by belittling or ridiculing another woman and her battles.

also, this can't be the first time that a situation like this has cropped up in the workplace (it just so happens that it hasn't in our collective experience on this thread). This kind of clash between religious belief and practicalities is not only faced by religious muslim women but also affects women from other faiths, such as Latter Day Saints/Mormons, and it would be so good to hear from people who have had first hand experience so we all can leave here with a better understanding of how to approach situations like this in a more positive and educated manner in future if we come across them.

twizzleship how does asking for segregation of the sexes in the workplace advance the cause of women in a patriarchal society or assist women in being treated as equals?

Lizzie I've just typed and deleted exactly the same sort of question because I couldn't word it how I wanted to.

But I too am curious to know how segregation and equality can ever go hand in hand.

Unless men are also chaperoned everywhere and constantly have to think about their modesty.

I don't think it's actually much to do with Islam or any religion, so much as it is to do with how much a small employer (ie the OP only employes 12 people) should be expected to accomodate a 'special snowflake' in the workforce. This particular employee has already been given concessions that other staff don't get (adjusting lunchbreaks) which presumably are manageable, but there comes a point when it is not reasonable for all the other employees to have to make adjustment after adjustment and be inconvenienced all for the sake of one person. A reasonable employer will always do his/her best to make employees happy eg allowing someone to take a particular day off for a family birthday/football match/partner's theatrical debut or whatever, or adjusting working hours for the sake of a parent as long as this doesn't mean compelling other staff to cover for the special snowflake and get no consideration for their own personal stuff.
In some companies and some types of work it's not a problem to accomodate different needs or preferences. Some jobs can be done just as well by a particular employee starting a bit earlier/later than others as long as said employee completes the tasks and/or is paid by the hour. Companies above a certain size can assign staff in such a way that their taboos or phobias are taken into consideration eg a big supermarket can probably allow a particular employee to avoid ever having to deal with meat/alcohol/phallic-shaped vegetables/misery memoirs that may be triggering, without inconveniencing customers.

But if you are a vegan or a vegetarian, a butchers or a cafe serving meat is perhaps not the best place for you. If you are a recovering alcoholic or teetotal for your own ethical reasons, you shouldn't work in a pub. If you have hayfever, don't take a job in a florist. And if you have an issue with an entire class of humanity (be that on grounds of gender, ethnicity, superstition or sexuality) that's your problem and you should go and work for people as daft and bigoted as you are.

lizzie I didn't say that it did. what i said is belittling and ridiculing another woman and her battles is wrong. As women we should have more sympathy and understanding towards other women....regardless of whether we share their religious beliefs or not. This employee is choosing to practice a particular part of her faith and she deserves to be treated with the same consideration and respect as any other woman who makes a choice/decision for herself.

Thank god there are employment laws prohibiting treating people with the general attitude shown on here.

SolidGoldBrass I really hope you aren't an employer! Thank goodness I don't work with people who share your views. Your 'special snowflake' comments are quite an insult.

I think the general attitude shown on here has been remarkably tolerant and well thought out to be fair.

Just because the majority of people think the request is unworkable, doesn't mean there's a problem with attitudes.

The OP has been very accommodating but most people recognise that in this situation, there is more than one employee to consider.

I can't speak for SGB but I took her 'snowflake' comment to mean someone so individual (as snowflakes are) that it makes it impossible for them to work as a team member.

To clarify (in case the term is used to mean something else that I'm not aware of) I use 'special snowflake' to mean someone who is demanding special treatment that isn't offered to other people but in fact inconveniences them or disregards their needs. It's not exactly unheard of for employees who are lazy or incompetent to play the special snowflake card.

I wouldn't accommodate this because I disagree with it fundamentally. It's sexist and discriminatory against men for a start and ridiculous, Muslim or not.

twizzle I find it very difficult to have any respect or sympathy for the suggestion it is impossible for a man and a woman to work together on their own; simply because this is dictated by a religious belief does not make it any more acceptable. The notion that somehow men cannot be trusted around unchaperoned women is bizarre and I do not think supporting such a view assists women in any way.

Certain religions despise homosexuality - do you think I should respect that as well?

at the thought of having SGB for a boss

I think this woman may have a bullying male relative (or 10) who would prefer her not to work, or socialise with other (unvetted) people, or have the level of autonomy that going to work and dealing with colleagues and customers entails. Which, if true, is a massive shame for her and a fucking disgrace. But the request cannot reasonably, or ethically, be accommodated. And it shouldn't be.

Not bizarre in Saudi Arabia Lizzie. It's a daily reality there

twizzle I also fundamentally disagree that just because it's a woman "battling" that deserves automatic respect and consideration no matter how misguided I think the cause is. I agree with Chrome100 requesting not to work with a male colleague is sexist and discriminatory.

I fully understood what she meant when she typed special snowflake! The girl isn't saying, 'I don't want to work on the till because sometimes it hurty my tiny winy little fingers', or, 'please don't let me work outside in Winter because it makes me go all shivery and sneezy and I'm just such a precious little lamb'. She has just made a request that isn't really that strange at all. It just isn't what the likes of SolidGoldBrass think is normal so therefore its just a silly request from a silly person following some load of codswallop like, you know, Islam, any religion really, blah blah blah, people who aren't the same as me. So basically you should get rid of them now and get people in who are exactly the same as you or at least who are prepared not to make any such nonsense requests and at least act the same as you. And if you don't, well, they will probably try to sue you or something so make sure you get it all down on paper! The girl is probably plotting her next moves now.

Asking not to work alone with a man isn't discriminatory. She isn't saying she doesn't want to work in a room alone with a man because she thinks men are idiots or stinky or below her for goodness sake.

RussianBlu: so how much inconvenience and extra work do you think other employees should be prepared to put up with to accomodate one colleague who doesn't want to perform a task that was a) explained as a necessary part of the job at interview stage and b) isn't illegal or wildly unusual?

I have been an employer (well, a manager of employees on shift work) and had to deal, more than once, with employees who were taken on to work weekends which was clearly explained to them, not only at the interview stage, but in the initial recruitment advert, which clearly stated weekend shift work but who then whined constantly about not wanting to work on Friday or Saturday nights.

It is discriminatory. It impinges upon a male employee's right to do his job for no other reason than that he is male

I have to agree with SolidGoldBrass..

It's discriminatory and there is no place for it in the workplace.