... to think that psychiatry is a bit of a con ...?

[Rommell]

... hidebound as it is by cultural and societal norms. Yet it posits that the criteria it creates are truths as to who is 'well' and who is not. How can a person's mind, their psyche, their being be 'ill' anyway? Plus if it really were possible for a drug to produce 'correct' thinking, then the person who created it would be ruler of the world.

[Amytheflag]

I think you're right lilka

[GiddyUpCowboy]

Look back at how limited science and Dr's were when old Henry vIII was around, he had the best and most up to date Dr's and they put leeches on him thinking it would cure things it would not.

In years to come Dr's of today including psychiatrists will be ridiculed for their behaviour by those in the future as they learn more.

[Rommell]

GiddyUpCowboy - I personally have more faith in psychologists! They are generally less hidebound by the old DSM-V and therefore more responsive and inventive in their approaches.

rootypig, I do know that psychiatrists have all the trappings of a well-respected profession etc. That doesn't mean that they are right though!

Anyway, gotta go. Thanks for the responses that were intelligent and thought-provoking, and a big fat to the people who called me a 'goady fucker' for daring to question the patriarchal hegemony.

[Rommell]

Btw when I say 'go', I will be back later on to see how the thread's going.

[rootypig]

I recently read Sally Brampton's memoir of depression, Shoot the Damn Dog. I have never been treated by a psychiatrist but she gives a good picture of the modern profession from a patient's perspective. Which was, doctors and treatment doing their best with tools they fully recognise are fairly blunt, but sitting across the desk from people who are desperate and in despair, among other things.

There but for the grace of god go all of us.

[HecatePropylaea]

Many years ago, I was in a mental health unit, convinced that there was a giant spider trying to kill me. This was after the grey faces on the wall that were mouthing words I couldn't hear, and the breathing coming from the box in my room, and the suicide attempts, and the voices whispering my name and telling me to throw my purse out of the window...

And later, after the birth of my first child, when I had ptsd (he nearly died, I nearly died and he was left with a life long disability) and I developed psychosis and thought he had died, been chopped up and replaced by a demon - that was not a great time for me either. I much prefer being able to function in the world, surprisingly.

I am not an expert on the brain, so I may well be wrong, but I have to say that, all things considered, I am fairly sure the above are indeed examples of the brain not working as it is supposed to. I think it can 'go wrong'. I don't think that that is how it is intended to be and I certainly don't feel that that was 'me'. I am certainly happier now that I am not being terrorised by impossible creatures or pondering how exactly my first born was dissected, I tell you that for nothing.

[ThefutureMrsTatum]

Shove your biscuit where the sun doesn't shine. You didn't answer any of my questions. It is worrying that people like you exist in society. And the proof that your goady is that you have started an inflammatory thread, provided no coherent replies then fucked off.

[manicinsomniac]

YABU for psychiatry. A person who needs a psychiatrist has a very real and measurable illness which can often respond very well to drugs.

For psychology you are possibly not being unreasonable. I've seen many psychologists, achieved nothing and eventually realised they can't do anything, I have to sort my own head out.

[GiddyUpCowboy]

It is only a biscuit why get so upset and get so into the power of a biscuit? I also laugh to myself at those who hand out their first

looks like boobs now.

[rootypig]

I do know that psychiatrists have all the trappings of a well-respected profession etc. That doesn't mean that they are right though!

Yeah sorry, please don't misunderstand, I don't mean that this means that the profession is beyond reproach - merely that they themselves are alive to the issues that you raise - which is important

And it was also a direct response to your post

All other branches of medicine involve physical and clinical examination before a diagnosis is reached. And yes sometimes there is a lack of clarity as to which is the correct diagnosis, and there may even be some elements of fudge or guesswork. But psychiatry is all subjective, with no hard clinical diagnostic evidence at all. In that sense, it differs from all other branches of medicine to the extent that I would posit it does not deserve to be classified as one at all.

Which conversely I think is too credulous when it come to non psychiatric medicine - and I was just saying that I think psychiatry does about as much as any branch of medicine in that sense

But you're right, like in all professions, this formal professional structure may well be conservative, self protective, and exclusionary

[Lilka]

a big fat biscuit to the people who called me a 'goady fucker' for daring to question the patriarchal hegemony

Um, no, you were called a goady fucker because you were and are, saying things that many people here with experience of mental illness find offensive and hurtful

You have a stunning lack of empathy for some people's experiences, I'll tell you that for nothing

[rootypig]

GiddyUp yes I agree, mean to mention you in my reply to Rommell above, I think my post about standards wasn't clearly enough directed

[ThefutureMrsTatum]

That sounds absolutely horrendous Hecate. Glad you are happier nowadays x

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

The psychiatrist will examine his or her patient's brain by looking at their thoughts, fantasies, and actions.

If it were not for psychiatry and the associated disciplines of psychotherapy and CBT, I would not be alive today.

I have depression - I have been depressed on and off since early teens. Antidepressants have kept me from suicide, and therapy is enabling me to tackle my thoughts and reactions in order to climb out of the black pit.

Without psychiatry, there would be NO treatment for people like me, Rommell - can you tell me why you think the world, my dh, my children and my friends would be better off without me in it? Because that IS what no psychiatry would have meant.

[GiddyUpCowboy]

I would prefer a big fat and a nice strong , can you send me some please OP?

[traininthedistance]

There are big differences between psychiatry (the medical speciality dealing with cognitive and mental illness), psychology (academic discipline), psychoanalysis (curative psychotherapy) and counselling. It might be useful for you to do some research on the differences between them. But YABU, OP.

[NinjaLeprechaun]

Comments like the OPs make me genuinely angry.

If you had ever seen somebody who needs anti-psychotics when they're not taking them, then you would absolutely not call them nonsense. If you've ever dealt firsthand with mental illness then you know that you do not need a doctor, or anybody else, to tell you that something isn't right.

I live in a place where adults cannot be compelled to receive psychiatric treatment unless they have already tried to hurt themselves or somebody else. And that is, frankly, a very frightening thing when the person who needs help refuses to get it. So I understand both sides of that dilemma, I don't think there's a right answer.

My response to the "mental illness is all in your head" argument is: Yes, it is in your head... but so is a brain tumor. And mental illness can be just as deadly.

[Mentalpsychiatrist]

As a consultant psychiatrist and a psychiatric patient I think YABU and quite frankly, speaking out of your behind. Without antipsychotic medication I would most likely be in a secure ward somewhere. My patients, who I see week in week out, are immeasurably helped by therapeutic interventions. Sure, we're not always 100% successful and I'm living proof of that but the so called 'blunt tools' available, combined with appropriate psychological intervention are the best we have, and I for one am happy to have them.

[MooncupGoddess]

Goady, ill-informed OP - tick. Angry, ill-informed replies - tick. Such is MN these days. Shame as this is such a massive, fascinating and controversial subject.

OP - you might find Richard Bentall's Madness Explained and Irving Kirsch's The Emperor's New Drugs interesting. A full on RD Laing 'mental illness is entirely socially constructed' approach is hard to justify, though, given that many if not all sufferers from schizophrenia and other florid mental illnesses do seem to benefit from drug treatment.

I spoke to a psychiatrist a while ago who said that drugs seemed to work very differently on different people, and they couldn't yet tell how or why. Hopefully science will start supplying some answers in the next few decades.

[GiddyUpCowboy]

No need to get angry at OP. I have not had psychosis, and it sounds like the drugs and treatment are very good for them.

I have suffered anxiety and depression. A numpty psychologist told me it and other physical symptoms were all mental health. they were not I was seriously ill physically and nearly died listening to that fool who tired to convince me that my physical symptoms were all mental health and not physiological in nature when they were. The psychologists didn't help me with the anxiety and depression a machine did that fixed the physical health condition I had.

For some this medicine works well for some it doesn't.

[stinkingbishop]

1. The mind is what the brain does. Mind is to brain as digestion is to stomach.
   

1. Psychiatrists DO look at scans. If someone's had a brain injury, for example, maybe a tumour or cavenoma, the brain team will all have a gander. The neurologist will cut, where necessary. The psychiatrist will apply chemicals in case it's caused a mental imbalance. The neurologist will also give chemicals in case it's caused anything organic eg epilepsy.The neuropsych will help with any cognitive problems that have arisen. And the physio will literally get them back on their feet. That's how it works.
   

1. Now, do go away dear.

[ThefutureMrsTatum]

Ninja. The "mental illness is all in your head" comment was me, I was being sarcy to the OP.

[Fairenuff]

This thread sounds like a lazy way to garner ideas for an essay, or summat.

Set it up. Be a bit goady. Request posters to 'discuss' or provide 'evidence'. Feck off with a, "keep talking, I'll be back later to collect notes check in on the discussion".

[stinkingbishop]

Sorry, for the first 'neurologist' read 'neurosurgeon'.

[GiddyUpCowboy]

I can guess why drugs don't work well on some as they are probably misdiagnosed.

I was told by the top guy in the condition that he has evidence to support that about 6% of the population have a medical condition that means their connective tissue is different to others. Of those there is a spectrum of autonomic dysfunction associated to the condition and much more symptoms. A lot of those people are wrongly written off as mentally ill when they are not it is physical.

I wonder how many more physical conditions like that there are that are under recognised.