to think this was a little OTT?

[aworkingmummy]

Picking DS up from nursery last night and another Mum was there collecting her DD. She had her 5 yr old DS with her.
Her DS said "Mummy let's go up the stairs" (there are lifts and stairs).

Now I would have replied along the lines of Yes lets go.

She however said "Now is that a command or a request hmm?"
Her DS "A request Mummy"
Her " And how do we phrase a request properly hmmm?"
Her DS "Mummy may we go up the stairs please?"
Her "Now that's much better, I will listen to you know you are speaking properly"

Me and DH were just stood there looking at each other thinking WTAF??
Then I was thinking - was that OTT or am I just really common to think it was??!

[Pumpkinpositive]

Sounds like my mum.

Ah, memories!

And I have fuck all in the way of manners now.

[TillyTellTale]

sparklingbrook

The sad thing is that he probably won't even bother suggesting it next time because he knows he will get a lecture.

Unfortunately no such luck.

He will either completely forget the preferred formula and ask anyway, or he will remember the preferred formula, and ask to do whatever it is.

[CarryOnDancing]

I actively instil manners but this child wasn't rude. The Mum sounds like a controlling idiot to me.

Respect is earned and all that.

YANBU.

[CarryOnDancing]

at the idea Tilly thinks it's a class issue.

[TillyTellTale]

P.S.

If you think being asked to say "may I" is sapping of spirit, thank god you weren't born with my hearing issues and resulting speech difficulties.

Do you know how fucking mean most children and adults are to a primary and then secondary-aged girl who can't say a few consonants?

As an adult, people say I am very cynical about other people. That's because the majority of people do not pass my "would have bullied a child with speech difficulties without a thought" radar. Statistically, assuming Mumsnet reflects general society, that means about 60% of the people reading this thread are also arses.

[Sparklingbrook]

I am a bit lost now Tilly. Are we still talking about the boy in the OP?

[MomOfTwoGirls2]

Mine DDs are twice that age at 10 and 11.
I ask them 'are you telling me or asking me?'... That gets the required 'please'.

[PeazlyPops]

Maybe it's a game they play, sometimes DS (aged 2) and I have odd conversations that eavesdroppers might find odd!

[Sparklingbrook]

That game doesn't seem very much fun though Peazly. Racing up the stairs=fun. Or racing DS2 while I am in the lift and he goes up the stairs. He's 12 now and we still do that.

[TillyTellTale]

CarryOnDancing



It's always a class issue with the English language. "May I" is associated with RP English, a variant associated with the upper classes.

Get a co-operating child with a sense of humour to say "may I" to other children, in a district it's not normally heard. Ask him or her about the reactions they got. You'll hear the word "posh" there, because children are honest about it.

Grown-ups deceive themselves about the depth of their inverse snobbery, and claim that their reaction to distinguishing "may" and "can" is totally nothing to do with class.

Sparklingbrook
What confuses you?

I am responding to this idea that being asked to say "may I" is a bit soul-destroying. I happen to have the misfortune to have a slightly better sense of perspective on what is soul-destroying here, in relation to continual correction of one's speech.

As there are lots of children out there right now with my old problems, perhaps my pain-filled post will make someone out there less of a fucking bastard out there today.

But I'm probably being too optimistic, and someone will sneer about my "isshoes" instead.

[MrsCakesPremonition]

She sounds like joyless pain. How is her child going to learn how to have a conversation, or make decisions himself? Because that was in no way modelling a normal conversation and I have no idea why a 5yo needs special permission to use the stairs when leaving a building.

[Sparklingbrook]

Most of your posts on this thread Tilly. But it's ok. I didn't get involved in the 'may I' discussion.

[BeverleyMoss]

Tilly you seem to be going off on a tangent here, but are you saying you think 60% of MNers would bully a child with speech difficulties?

Also, if we're going to get picky about language, 'Let's' is 'let us' so really the child was pretty much requesting rather than demanding anyway, so yes, the putting in his place by mother was really unnecessary.

[Sparklingbrook]

Did the boy in the OP have a speech difficulty?

[Goldenbear]

OTT and a little power obsessed I'd say!

Our new neighbours are like this- well the Dad is. We live in the flat opposite on the same floor. Our kitchen is next to the front door, he gets his eldest ready on the landing as they won't have shoes in their flat. If I'm in the kitchen and they're leaving it is one long, monotone announcement of instructions and description on the 'proper' way to do things. He is quite smug aswell and when he saw my two argue he told his son who is 3 that he will be a good older brother and never argue with his little sister. The sister in question is 4 weeks old, my two are 7 (nearly) and 3. I felt like telling him to hold that smug thought.

[KatnipEvergreen]

I've said something similar to a request for "DRINK!" in Father Jack style. "What's the magic word?" "That's not a very nice way to ask, is it?" But "Let's go up the stairs" is perfectly normal and polite.

May I is more technically correct than Can I, but "May we" in the example given sounds tiresome and overly formal.

[MrsCakesPremonition]

Imagine you have met a friend and you say "Let's have a coffee", would "Please can I have a coffee with you?" sound polite or weird?
So why should a child's suggestion have to be more formally formulated than a similar adult conversation?

[KatnipEvergreen]

Gah. Authoritarian parents give me the willies.

[cory]

She doesn't seem to understand the difference between a suggestion and a request.

Would she feel the same about a friend who said "let's go to the pub"?

Or does she have a relationship with her child in which every single utterance has to be hierarchical.

I wanted my children to grow up able to handle both request situations and suggestion situations and be able to tell the difference.

[KatnipEvergreen]

Imagine you have met a friend and you say "Let's have a coffee"

Or indeed, "Coffee?"

[maddening]

She sounds tedious

[UriGeller]

The bad mum turned it from being a great idea by an excited, adventurous child to a boring request to which she needed permission. Poor kid.

[TillyTellTale]

Beverley

Yes, 'let's' is should for 'let us'. Are contractions relevant to whether it's an imperative mood?

About 60% of the population did. If MN reflects the general population, then yes.

I think mumsnet is actually a biased subset of the population, so it will not be that high. But I am quite certain that the percentage of people on here who would actively "sap a child's spirit" every time they said a single sentence is much higher than it should be.

My point is: being asked to say "may I" is not sapping. And before people start piling-in on a woman who's not even here for "sapping her child's spirit", I want them to all think about how they'd react to someone with speech difficulties. Genuinely think. Not a quick, assumption of "oh I'd never do that".

And then I want them to really, really think about how their children would treat a class-mate.

Here's a test. Ever sneered at Jonathan Ross for those r's? Not his personality or behaviour, but his speech? Most people do.

I appreciate this is a tangent to you. To me, it's an opportunity to educate, and also, if I don't say all this, my blood pressure will be sky high.

[TillyTellTale]