...to be worried about my wife's desire for a third child?

[ThePerfectFather]

My wife of 20 years (we're 38) wants a third, we currently have 2 DDs, 2.5 and 5, and I'm the SAHD who raises 'em while my wife earns the corn.

I am not a natural at this game but the kids are great and they're doing well at school and seem to be a happy pair. I am crap at doing most of the sort of support work like laundry and cleaning but I do all the cooking and shopping and all the rest of it so I think it's pretty balanced. I also do some work from home for my sort of business on the internet if you like, and that's currently really taking off and paying the sort of money you could reasonably call "a salary" rather than "peanuts". I really want to leave behind the abject horror of looking after young kids. I hated the first years so much, I know that's wrong but I enjoy the kids WAY more now. I have spoken to a lot of my mates and many of them feel the same way - babies are really hard work, but once they get to be little people they're just fantastic fun.

And now, into the mix, my wife has thrown a desire for a third child.

I recently took down all the child proofing stuff like stair gates etc, we ebayed or freecycled a bunch of other baby stuff, binned things like old sterilisers, bottles etc and gave all our baby clothes to our friends who've had babies of their own. We upgraded our car seats, I've started going through the NHS process for a vasectomy, even, so we were committed to the idea that this was it - no more children, 2 was plenty.

Then, out of nowhere, my wife announces that she's going off her birth control and that's that. She's been on the deepo injection for years and now, out of the blue, she's off it. I knew why, of course. She hoped she'd get pregnant and then of course I'd say "fine, looks like we're having a third". I'm not going to suddenly demand an abortion or anything horrific like that, and if we DID have a third, of course I'd adore the baby as much as my 2 DDs already.

She sort of turned into one of those 18 year old boys I'm sure all the women on here have had to fend off (or not) when they were younger who said things like "don't worry you can't get pregnant the first time" and so on. She started to say things like "it's ok I haven't had my period yet" and so I, being an idiot, had sex with her and she then phones me a few days later to say "I did a test and I'm not pregnant" and sounded kind of disappointed.

Hang on a sec - I thought you said we couldn't GET pregnant?! I felt like an idiot for even buying that one for a second, so now that's it - no sex until after the vasectomy, I told her. All she could say was "we'll see" because she knows I'm a weak fool when it comes to sex.

So far, no doctor's appointment has been forthcoming because, you know, it's the NHS and there's lines of blokes desperate to get their balls hacked off. I could call and tell them I want to crack on because I am dying for a shag but I doubt they'd care, the MONSTERS. So I'm just going to remain diligent and have so far (about a month now) avoided any kind of activity that might lead to anything. I'm basically keeping her at arms length. A firm handshake before she leaves for work, no more slapping her on her bum, etc. Civil, businesslike. She's getting the message that I'm not interested while she's fertile for kids.

Anyway - now I am worried about the lengths she'll go to. I've read that statistic about the number of men raising kids who aren't theirs, and she's a very attractive girl so I'm seriously worried that she's going to find some fella just like in that Heart song "All I Wanna Do is Make Love to You" about the woman who just wants to have sex with a guy to get knocked up because her husband won't or can't do it! And it's one of her favourite songs too! When I said some years ago that it's about a women cheating on two men she said "you don't understand" and I fancy that she thinks it's fair game.

She's often out after work for these "leaving drinks" for people I've never heard mentioned before, and has to go away for business sometimes too. What if she finds some bloke who looks a bit like me and gets him into the sack. What am I going to do, demand a paternity test the moment the baby is born? Go on the Maury Povich show?

I feel like this is the ultimate role reversal and, in some way, I deserve this as some penance for what my people (men) have wrought upon women these many generations past.

So what should I do? I love my wife and I fancy the pants off her so the idea of losing her because she wants a baby so badly she either stops loving me, or screws someone else and forces me to leave her (I wouldn't be able to live with it, despite everything, mainly because my Dad was a serial divorcer and left us high and dry long ago) is keeping me up at night.

She's quite a driven person and can be extremely cold and calculating at times (like a beautiful lizard) for example when she lost her virginity, she just decided she wanted to, found a guy she knew and fancied, marched up to him in the pub and said "can you come round tomorrow and pop my cherry", this was despite him having a girlfriend that she knew, and that was that. Job done. She's like a robot when she wants something.

So AIBU? What the hell should I do?

[Sharaluck]

If you didn't have to be the sahd would you want a third?

[ThePerfectFather]

RealYellowWiggle - that's not what I was implying but thanks for projecting. I said "I am" not "men are" and I said nothing about women at all. I think it's really, really unfair to label me as a sexist when I've confronted sexism every day being a SAHD. I'm not saying "woe is me" but until you've tried it, all you can do is try to empathise. Right?

As an example of what I mean by crap - I always forget to treat the stains on whites, so they set. I often forget it's in the machine so it sits there for a day and has to be washed again. Cleaning is just something

The issue with child care is the expense. Living in London is bad enough, having child care expenses that are about the same as what I'm earning means we're just standing still financially. Working for what? So that I can pay for childcare while I am working? Seems mad to me.

[Sharaluck]

If childcare and sahd-ing wasn't the problen would you want a third?

[Longtalljosie]

God almighty men get no leeway at all on here. I hope you do write professionally, PerfectFather - I do, and you're better at it than me.

Did you mean it about the leaving drinks? Really? Because that means you really, really don't trust her... Is that 3am paranoia or is there more to it than that...

[Longtalljosie]

[ViviPru]

So that I can pay for childcare while I am working? Seems mad to me.

Not forever, tough, is it?

[ViviPru]

though not tough.

[BrunoBrookesDinedAlone]

OP you say that your business is now taking off: so surely the compromise might be that if you have a third, you won't be SAHD-ing in the same way- perhaps her taking nine months or even a full year mat leave, then nursery - say starting at 18months new baby goes 2 days a week, building up to maybe full time by 3? With your salary increasing, surely this would be feasible- plus, quite rightly, if you no longer want to commit to SAHP then that's the way it is: start the discussion from the point of what you personally dont want and won't be happy with. To me, that doesn't sound so much like you don't want another baby but that you don't want to do childcare for another 5 years. That's fair enough and it doesn't mean you can't have another baby.

Your OP becomes madder as it goes on though, I have to say. I had a pet lizard when I was small- it got out of its vivarium but couldn't get back in. It was possibly the least calculating beast this side of an anemone.

[BrunoBrookesDinedAlone]

Paying for childcare in this situation is what every family in your position does, though. Don't think of childcare as coming out of your wage- it's 50/50 with both, it allows you BOTH to work, and not just right now but when they're all in school. It's investing in the future. For you, someone with a growing business, surely you can see that. You reap the rewards later. Maybe the rewards will not only be financial but in the shape of a third child in the family, and a happier partnership with your dear lady lizard?

[rabbitlady]

you look after small children and had time to write an essay. you shake hands with your wife before she goes to work.

i don't believe you. but i read more of your post than i do of most of them.

[GoooRooo]

it's the NHS and there's lines of blokes desperate to get their balls hacked off

Tell her you'd be up for another baby if she takes on all the childcare and can find a way for that to work financially.

[ThePerfectFather]

3am paranoia - that sounds about right. That, and I've seen it on the telly. And my family history has made me suspicious about relationships when it comes to sex, maybe. Just feels like sex and babies both make people lose their minds and their rationality.

Regarding childcare costs: It may not be forever, but it's also kind of sad to be at home and looking after my other 2 whilst I pay someone to look after a 3rd. I realise it doesn't make much sense but I can't see the point in earning money to pay someone so I can earn that money, when the two basically cancel each other out. That and I don't really trust someone else to raise my kids. I know that doesn't make sense to most of you either.

[mrsmalcolmreynolds]

Just an aside, I have to take issue with your position that it is only you as the SAHP who raises your children, or that if they were to go to some sort of paid-for childcare, someone other than you/your DW would be raising them.

My children go to nursery four days a week, a combination of me/GPs one day a week and me and DH at the weekends. DH and I are raising them, of that there is no doubt.

[ThePerfectFather]

Rabbitlady, one is at school, the other is taking a nap because she's been poorly. Also I type very quickly since I work with computers. The handshake was a joke (I assumed it was obvious).

Most of my op was tongue in cheek but my concerns still remain. Since most of this forum is women with kids, how much of a relationship breaker would it be if YOU wanted a third and your partner didn't? For anyone in a similar situation, what happened? Do any of you resent your partner for not giving you another child that you wanted?

My wife earns probably 85% of our money. My thing is just a nice thing on the side that is going to help out, but in no way could I take over from her. This has been a really good year, but it's still not anywhere near enough to even cover the mortgage let alone live off. If she took a full year off, I'd be concerned about her career down the line. At the moment she's doing fantastically well and I can see good things happening. Another baby? I just think it's another two or three years of the same old grind AT BEST. Our DDs have been really pretty good by most standards, but what if number three is a nightmare? Or has some kind of health problems of mental problems? I feel like having two gorgeous healthy kids is pushing the envelope as it is.

Also everyone I know with more than two kids drives around like some kind of farmer with a van load of mewing calves. Doing things with our two is about to get easier - they'll both appreciate going to the pictures, on holiday, the zoo, the museum etc. If we add a baby in to that mix now it's "sorry girls, we have to cut the trip short, the baby needs to go home" and how is that fair on them?

I just can't see the practical side of it being in any way positive.

[NurseyWursey]

rabbitlady wtf, plenty of SAHM's come on here and have time to write 'essays'.

[ThePerfectFather]

MrsMalcolmReynolds - my wife sees the kids for about an hour a day during the week. At the weekend, it's both of us and she definitely does her share but it's not like she takes over 100%. I think in the last five years there are maybe a few weeks in total where she has been, dawn til dusk, the sole person in the charge of the children. That's just the way it is.

That is not to diminish her role to that of some absentee parent, but the fact is that I do the lion's share of the child raising. You can dispute that if you like, but as far as I am concerned a third child would be far more my responsibility. And that's on top of the other two.

[Callani]

PerfectFather your writing style is fantastic, I've been laughing all through my lunch break. I hope you get things sorted.

[murphys]

PF, did you both discuss the vasectomy and were you both in agreement? Surely you have discussed with your wife - what has happened in between that discussion and her now wanting another?

[ThePerfectFather]

@murphys (and various others)

Yes, I have discussed this at length on a number of occasions with my wife. If I called her now and said "come home baby, lets make a kid" she'd be in a cab in five seconds. That's her position. She knows it's not that something I want, but she also knows that we absolutely COULD have a third child. We have room, she earns enough that I could be a SAHD for another one no problemo. On paper.

She agreed to me having the vasectomy but she is, to my mind, thinking that until that day there's a window of opportunity in which we can conceive a third baby and then put a full stop at the end of the list.

I worry that she sees it as a countdown timer that needs to be beaten rather than a decision we've already come to.

[mrsmalcolmreynolds]

OP I am not disputing the fact that you spend much more time with your children than your DW or that this would continue to be the case with a third DC. And based on what you say I am appalled by your DW's behaviour. Plus I share your concerns about the practicalities of having 3DC, and am on a personal not very definitely not having a third myself.

However, I strongly disagree with your conflation of child care on the one hand and raising children on the other. You appear to say that your DW is pretty fully involved at weekends, and presumably you discuss issues and decisions about the children with her during the week and reach joint decisions? You are both raising your children, surely? Personally I think it is really unhelpful and divisive to start down a "I raise them 80%, you only raise them 20%" track. So what?

And I notice you have now gone quiet about the "someone else raising my kids" point.

[mrsmalcolmreynolds]

Aargh - "personal note".

[specialsubject]

the one who doesn't want a child trumps the one who does.

you have some hard talking to do. But every child should be wanted by both parents.

to be brutal - if this breaks the marriage then it is better that another child isn't brought into it.

[BrunoBrookesDinedAlone]

You dont do the lion's share of the 'raising' though. You do the lion's share of the daily care. I am in your position at the mo- I certainly don't think that my DH does less 'raising'. His philosophy, his outlook contributes equally to how WE raise OUR children. The dynamic when we are together as a family is what they learn through and the prism through which they view the world- at least right now.

Anyway, that's an aside. It sounds more now as if you just don't wNt a third full stop, if so, that's fine. You'll have to find your way through that with your wife. Most if the replies on here talk about logistics and work, as it initially sounded more as if that was your issue.

One last point on childcare, though. Firstly, the suggestion of childcare for the third was made on the assumption that by the time no 3 was starting off in nursery- which if you got pregnant within the next couple of months would be over two years away- the others would be in school. Not at home with you, so yes you could be working, and you wouldn't have one in nursery and the others at home- yes, that would be silly!

Secondly, when we had our first I was in a demanding job. DC1 went at c. 14 months, first 3 and then 4 days. DC2, I'm now at home with some freelancing. And one of my worries is that DC2 won't get the amazing experiences DC1 had at nursery and won't be as socially confident, and generally well adjusted as DC1! My ideal option would be for DC2 to be able to access nursery from c. 18months, just for 1-2 days a week.

[LangenFlugelHappleHoff]

She IS a lizard person!

::whispers:: it's a conspiracy!

[ThePerfectFather]

MrsReynolds - I don't think I've said that she's not playing a huge part in raising the kids from a parenting point of view. If I said something like that, I apologise, it's not my intention to belittle her contribution because, for one thing, she seems to have far more knowledge about them than I do. She knows their shoes sizes, for example, but I couldn't even begin to guess (sorry). She loves her girls deeply and it's only the necessity of her job that keeps her from them. She also works from home when she can so she can spend time with them.

I am talking merely about the mind numbing day-to-day grind of saying "where are your SHOES" for the billionth time. I am sick of it, and I am enjoying the kids getting older and less in need of me so much. I like the fact they can amuse themselves painting, or playing lego or whatever for hours on end. It's great. I can get on with things I need to do or just read a book and it's actually pretty cool. My eldest is fascinated by science and nature and we spend a lot of time talking about that, with practical demonstrations of scientific principles. It's exciting and I love it.

Maybe it's selfish too, but I get no reward or satisfaction from the routine stuff. It's like filling out the same form endlessly, and then seeing it cast into the fireplace at the end of the day only to be redrawn the next.

Also, a baby as WELL as two kids seems like insanity to me. I can see the end of the tunnel. I can see my kids and me having a relationship beyond the very simple - albeit wonderful and loving - one we have now, and I can only see how a baby would drag us back to the whole "it's feeding time, it's nap time, baby, baby, baby" thing that we're climbing out of now.

I know a forum about Mum's is probably the wrong place to say it but bloody hell, the early stuff is a chore, isn't it?