To not get the problem with skin whitening?

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Just seen a video with a singer Dencia 'defending' her decision to lighten her skin and the interviewer suggesting that it means she's uncomfortable being a black woman. Provided the product is safe to use, I don't see why someone lightening dark skin is any different ethically to a pale person using fake tan, or someone putting a dye on grey hair.

[LaGuardia]

I have thought recently that if Beyoncé uses anymore skin bleach she will be whiter than my redheaded freckle-faced DD.

[squoosh]

YABU

I watched the Channel 4 news last night where they interviewed Denica about her Whitenicious product. She was awful and refused point blank to accept she was perpetuating the idea that lighter skin should be aspired to by black women even though she did say that 'white means pure'. But I suppose she is just a tiny drop in an ocean of cosmetics giants who are making a lot of money by encouraging black and Asian people (I'm sure many men use these products too) to feel ashamed of their darker skin. Many of the big cosmetics companies sell products described as 'lightening' throughout Asia. They may not contain bleach but they reinforce the message that pale is the ideal.

I think it's great that the dark skinned Lupita Nyong'o is so prominent these days, till now black actresses were usually dark skinned 'character' actresses or light skinned 'beautiful' actresses. She is very definitely dark skinned and very definitely beautiful. (and v talented too as the Oscar will attest!).

[squoosh]

Have just checked and Ponds, L'Oréal, Olay, Vaseline and Neutrogena all sell products that are marketed as 'lightening'. I'm sure there are many others.

[SnookyPooky]

We used to watch satellite TV which came from the Middle East and there were a lot of ads for skin whitening creams, mainly Fair & Lovely. The one I remember most is a woman not being considered for a job while her skin was dark, after using the product and her skin was lighter she got the job.
Shite.

[Jolleigh]

Skin bleaching is dangerous, as are sun beds so it's certainly not a safety issue.

I personally feel it's quite racist that her decision is being questioned - why should this woman have fewer choices than I do as a white female? It seems that in an attempt to move away from the notion that skin colour denotes superiority, society is still dictating what WOC can and can't do freely.

I have vitiligo. I stay as pale as possible to make it less noticeable. If I encountered a black woman with vitiligo who had bleached her skin, I'd know she's made that decision for the same reason I stay pale. Should that choice not be entirely hers?

[SauceForTheGander]

Exactly MrsDeVere - it's not being great white saviour to say skin whitening products are a bad idea - physically and because of the frankly abhorrent motivations behind them.

If you're on twitter / facebook follow Writers of Colour. There are frequent articles covering many points raised on this thread. I highly recommend.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

'I thought that in India's caste system lighter skin = higher caste had been the correlation for a thousand+ years.'

Why would that change things, though? A thousand years ago, you don't think people were racist? Or you don't think there were already disadvantaged areas of the world?

A thousand years ago (give or take, and I think a thousand years before that, too) people in Europe were into racist steroptyping of the Middle East and Africa. I can totally believe the same is so in India.

[HolidayCriminal]

So which culture anywhere, anywhen, has ever valued dark skin over light? I guess what I'm thinking is that even within most (?all) non-white communities, lighter has been preferred traditionally. So a black woman trying to look lighter IS following her cultural norms (I suspect). Whitey didn't impose all the bad things.

Mind, albinos are heavily persecuted in Africa. So I guess there is such a thing as too white.

[BMW6]

Actually, getting a tan isn't healthy at all - a tan means that the skin is damaged.

[nooka]

But Dencia is not being criticized so much for using whitening products, as for selling them. She is heavily promoting her product, and the advertising line is that it is a cleanser, so the subtext is very much that dark skin is dirty. That's a really really dodgy line to take, and she should be called on it IMO.

[Backonthefence]

I have mixed feelings on this, tanning is not healthy it is damage to the skin pure and simple. There are more cases of skin cancer than all cancers put together and UV is a proven carcinogen. However sun beds are not illegal. Many lightening products are illegal in the UK however and I do wonder why there is such a difference in approach?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

holiday - well, uh, ours? Isn't that what the tan posts are all about?

If you mean, do I know of a culture where most people are darker than white Europeans where they value dark skin, no, I don't. I also don't know a huge amount about the aesthetic preferences of those cultures in other ways, partly because I am white and European, and partly because media isn't interested in promoting those aesthetics outside those cultures. Which is why I think this does all go back to racial inequality.

I know that sounds simple and maybe it is too simple. But it's worth considering.

[Branleuse]

without growing up as a black woman, and having those cultural messages as your reality, then i think its a bit shit to complain if some black women give off the 'wrong political message' by lightening their skin.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I agree with that, bran. And I wouldn't do that either.

But this is true across the board, isn't it? It is generally and fundamentally extremely shitty to say 'ah, I believe this person has been on the nasty end of some unpleasant cultural messages but what an idiot/meanie s/he is to internalise them'.

[FiscalCliffRocksThisTown]

Maybe you need to have lived in a racist society to understand the issue.

In Mexico, where we lived for years, you are treated better the whiter you are. Being dark skinned equals being a lesser human, and you are treated thus.

All wealth and power is held by whiter skinned people.

The skin whitening cream is a sad product for people who can't beat the system, so join in the mad racist values.

It is never just about skin colour. It is about power and racism and cultures where the white race is seen as supreme.

[FiscalCliffRocksThisTown]

Still, nobody has to justify their decisions on how they (try to) look!

[Chippednailvarnish]

To me "ethnic" women bleaching their skin are trying to look European, where as white women using sunbeds and fake tan aren't actually trying to look like they belong to a different race (species perhaps but that's a different thread )...

I have always found the pursuit of pale skin and so called "double" eyelids within my own chinese heritage insulting and ridiculous. I'm guessing many black people see skin bleaching the same way, hence the backlash Dencia selling the crap has had.

[feesh]

I live in the Middle East and I've been shocked since I've been here about how many of our familiar and much-loved British brands sell whitening products as part of their ranges over here. For example, Boots No7 has a whitening range.

There are others; I just can't remember them off the top of my head.

They are just a normal part of everyday beauty regimes here, not just for locals but for girls from all over Asia. Nobody seems to really think that much about it.

[feesh]

Also, I would add that it's not just about white people being seem as superior. The locals definitely don't think that, because they actually look down on us. It's more to do with beauty ideals I think.

[HolidayCriminal]

Plenty people don't particularly prefer tans (I know I don't). It's not as pervasive as other beauty expectations, anyway.

I just wonder if we're being culturist (such a word?) to assume that non-white people always valued being their own particular shade and that it was only white interference to make them think different. I doubt that's at all true. And it's probably patronising.

I really really loathe the way (almost) every black woman knows she's expected to straighten her hair nowadays (I am omitting long list of other expected beauty things I hate for modern women). I can't believe any of them are good for one's health either. But if everyone else can shrug all those off, seems hypocritical to suddenly care much about 1 individual skin lightening.

[Jolleigh]

Is the hair thing as simple as that though? Just spoke to a black friend of mine with relaxed hair and asked why she prefers it that way. She said it's easier to manage and she can do more with it.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Really, holiday? Not my experience, but fair enough. Personally, I think plenty of people do prefer tans, just as plenty of women I know who have darker than white European skin don't want whitening products.

I do take your point. I just don't get how we would ever know? Because we have very little history where cultures have been totally insular, I think?

My point here is that talking about this specific issue (or about an individual) is dodgy. That's what I'm saying! That's why I said it's part of the same thing as tans or whatever. Sure, it's not to the same degree and I'm not saying a white woman getting a fake tan is the same as a black woman using skin lightener, I'm not saying it attracts the same responses from onlookers, etc. But I am saying it's all part of the same problem.