To consider an abortion?

[ExquisiteChristmasCakes]

I'm 12+ weeks pregnant (unplanned). This is child number 3. My husband last week has just gone back to his old job, meaning I had to stop my business to look after the children (he was a SAHD but at his work he can earn double what I can). I am suffering from hyperemesis and have done with all of my pregnancies, and now I feel like PND is creeping it's ugly head in. I spent all of last night in tears wondering how I'm going to cope with a newborn, a two year old and a just turned four year old...how am I meant to be doing the school run if the baby is due it's breakfast (bf)? I genuinely don't think I can cope and I feel if I continue with this pregnancy I'll end up resenting my husband and snapping at my existing children. I guess I just feel things would run smoother if this baby wasn't happening. I'm sick of feeling sick and tired and run down to the extend where I can't even be a decent SAHM because I genuinely don't even feel up to driving most days. My husband is fully supportive of whatever is best for me. Please know judgemental posts, I'm really on the edge today.

I haven't got much to add that hasn't been said but are you on ADs some (eg Prozac) are safe during pregnancy. Plus maybe consider going to talk to a professional counsellor - when I had this decision to make it really helped. Hugs to you

Exquisite, as a pregnant mother of 2 with DC3 cooking away I really feel for you. I too suffer with PND, I can also feel mine creeping in & although my DH is wonderful, I currently feel I'm struggling to cope. I secretly know I'm ruining my marriage but can't face up to the PND. Today I rang the doctors... My personal first step...

I really hope you can work out what YOU need to do with everything your going through. Although PND isn't really talked about, your not on your own. Good luck with everything

as usual none of the anti-choice people are offering practical help.

it is 100% your choice. If you want this baby and can cope, continue. If either of those do not apply, terminate. If you think it is PND, see someone ASAP. 3 close together like that will be very hard work, although people do it.

Every child a wanted child in a situation where there is space and support for it.

good luck in whatever you do.

Under the circumstances I would not have an abortion. Your husband's suggestion of a nanny is very sensible and not unreasonable at all, certainly compared to what you see as the alternative. A nanny is a very realistic and practical solution to that early stage, which I completely agree seems a bit hair-raising, of trying to do breakfasts, school runs and breastfeeding all at once, and you shouldn't feel weird about it at all.

I am very much in favour of the right to choose, but nothing you describe in your post makes an abortion seem like the best solution, when you have so much support around you and the availability of paid help when the time comes.

If you don't want to give up your business, and can afford it - get a nanny. It's an extra adult to love and look after the children, who will allow you to keep working. If you are self employed anyway you can be flexible with this.

Having a nanny or au pair when you've got three preschoolers isn't self-indulgent, it means you get time to actually enjoy each and every one of your children without being mentally and physically exhausted by the boring bits. Best wishes.

And MrsPixieMoo which bit of the sentence *Please no judgemental posts, I'm really on the edge today?' did you not understand?

I had a termination at about 10 weeks, my PND seemed to lift within hours of it, the relief was so great. My family planning clinic did it all (referrals) for me, really quickly as it is their specialist area. Saved me going to see a GP.

I am not great at the SAHM thing and being able to choose a termination I am sure, has given me a quality of life I wouldn't have had otherwise. Don't forget, this pregnancy is making you ill and your children and DH still need you.

I hope you come to the right decision for you. I wish you the best.

Oh, forgot to say, I have never has aguish or regret about it and the OP was fine; they didn't even need to give me anaesthetic.

"as usual none of the anti-choice people are offering practical help."

I saw suggestions of telephone counselling, Homestart, getting a nanny/au pair, advice to see a GP regarding depression, so I think we must be reading a different thread, specialsubject. Or are you meaning that those of us who wouldn't have an abortion should pop round to the OP's house to personally help?

exquisite, I am very sorry that you find yourself in this situation that is clearly very difficult and worrying you. I've suffered from lots of nausea and vomiting in all of my pregnancies and have needed some admissions.

The things that have helped me is people bringing out meals, helping out with housework (a lawyer friend of mine came round one evening just to deep clean the kitchen!), nursery a few mornings a week for the children to give both them and me a break, ready meals sometimes, throwing the children out into the garden while I sit at the open French doors with a cup of tea, going to bed as soon as my DH gets back from work.

I have tried to balance out the guilt in my head for not being a great mother during pregnancy by remembering that (as much as it really does drag on at the time and feel it will never end) it is for such a short time in their lives and how wonderful it is to see their relationship as siblings develop.

Don't feel guilty about getting more childcare. It really is a very modern invention that one mother stays at home on her own with her children all the time. Before people lived in far better community with childcare shared amongst the family and neighbours (or indeed staff but that's not the circles I would have mixed in, unless I was the staff!). My DC have a great time at nursery getting to do things I just don't have the energy for - or sometimes the desire for (full body painting at home, I think not!)

you're smiling now but that's just a mask...........you've done a brilliant job......

need2move your GP sounds like solid gold and very astute. I'll bet those words made you feel a million feet tall and think
"Hey. Y'know. I'm doing good"

You're NOT palming your dc off, you are hiring "a pair of hands" to help you with your workload. Please don't think of it that way. I would have if I could have afforded to.

Below is my view. I am not judging you. I am simply giving my experience. You must make up your own mind. It is utterly shit and unfair but you alone must make the decision and live with it.

I had one at 6 weeks. The regret and mental anguish did not hit me for several years. We are obviously not all the same but I would caution you that mentally you may feel fine about doing it initially but later it may be something you regret. Especially if you go on to have another. I bitterly regret it now and I went on to have a further DC. You can't take it back.

My reasoning at the time was similar to yours. I had 3 year old twins and an 8 year old. It was a total accident and I immediately knew I would not be able to cope especially as one of my twins has behavioural problems. We were living abroad where the school starting age is 7 with no free preschool and another 3 years at home with a baby in the mix would have been impossible. We had absolutely no family support or the finances to pay for help. DH also worked away 2 weeks out of every 3. It would not have been fair on my existing children and on the baby. The thing that tipped me over in doing it was that my due date would have been slap bang in the middle of winter (Canada) and I feared going into labour while being snowed in alone with the DC and with my husband away! Nearest maternity hospital was over an hour away.

I know NOW that I would have coped, rather that the constant guilt at what I have done when I look at my other children and remember the sibling they should have had. I try to think of myself as a good person but in my lowest moments I think 'but you did that' . I am not saying that women who abort are not good people at ALL, but that is how I personally feel about myself. I still can't believe I did it.

Don't underestimate yourself and what you can cope with. Think very carefully but time is of the essence. There is no way I could have gone through with it at the stage you are at. 6 weeks was my absolute limit.

MsMarvel the rights of the child are taken into consideration after it is born. Your post is not helpful in any way shape or form.

And it is not a viable foetus/fully functioning being as it could not survive outside it's mother.

No judgement from me at all. I have 3 but large age gaps so not as much pressure, it was still hard work though! You must do what is best for you in the long term.
Wrt to the au pair/nanny suggestion, it's a great idea if you can afford it and there is no palming off going on. A business owner would employ someone else to take some of the work off their hands, this is no different. I put my DS in nursery part time while a stay at home Mum and felt not a jot of guilt!

No it is not the fucking same as the orphanage scenario. This thread should really be moved to Antenatal choices before it becomes completely hijacked by an anti choice/pro choice debate.

YANBU to consider an abortion. I'd try to see someone,neutral,ASAP to discuss what is best for you.

OP have a look in the antenatal and postnatal depression section - I think you may find some threads that ring true for how you are feeling and some likeminded posters who could help you work this out and separate your feelings from the depression you are experiencing.

I looked in there myself at threads about aborting due to antenatal depression - in the end I decided that I just need to keep my head down and get through it, and pregnancy is short really and my DC are small and wont remember that I was so shitty for a while. But that's because I held on to (still hold onto) that I wanted four dc, I separated the feelings between what I really wanted and the depression. The feelings that are skewed with depression are MUCH louder so it is hard.

I wouldn't have felt any guilt if I had decided the other way. Quite frankly its my body to do whatever the hell I want with and thank fuck we live in England where opinions like Marvels don't really matter.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/antenatal_postnatal_depression

YANBU to consider this at all. Ignore unhelpful posts and remember that it is your choice.

The very fact you are concerned about your existing dcs/how you will cope shows that you are a caring person who only wants to make the best decision for your family and yourself.
I had hyperemesis with my pregnancies and with dc3 it was horrendous, I actually booked an appointment for a termination but then cancelled it, the constant vomiting and feeling seriously unwell really clouded my thoughts, I thought I wouldn't cope but when the hg lifted a bit at 24 weeks I felt more able to start putting things into place and getting ready for having a new baby.
That's not to say its wrong to have a termination-you have to do what is right for you I just wanted to let you know what happened to me.

Please consider getting this thread moved to the ante natal choices board x

Oh, my dc are 6, 5, 2 and due soon - if I could afford someone to come and help, or convince the local lion tamer to baby sit for half hour - I would!! No guilt at all about wanting to cut out some of the drudge to allow me time to enjoy the little buggers I have created!

YANBU to consider having a termination. No one surely would say you did.

I can sympathise a bit as we have three children but ours were planned so we didn't have the shock factor as well.

When DC1 started school he was 4.6, DD was 2.2 and DC3 was 9 weeks old. I never had a problem getting the kids to school in the morning but in the afternoon you would find me parked at the school at 2.15 for a 3.15 pick up to factor in DD's nap and DS2's breast feed. I adapted to their needs and it wasn't a pain to sit for an hour as better than waiting and seeing what the others would do then panicking as I was feeding the baby and couldn't leave or having to wake DD to go.

I also had AND when expecting DC3 and PND after all of them so I sympathise. I had all sorts of horrible thoughts but I know it was the depression talking. I think you need to think carefully as if you do terminate and it is the depression you might regret your decision later when you are well.

My PIL started having the children more once more babies came along, I wasn't palming them off, I was letting them help and letting both sides build a relationship. I didn't find it easy letting them go but it was the right thing to do.

Your DH is offering paid help. Take it! There is no limit to how many people can get attached too and it can make them feel more secure I suspect if they know they have lots of people who love them.

Good luck. I hope you can make a decision that is best for all of you.

YANBU to think of it.

I am in the "as soon as possible, as late as necessary" camp when it comes to women's right to choose what is best for them and their existing children.

But two things jump out.

First, you didn't consider this till about 2 weeks ago when depression and hyperemesis started to kick in. That's not to say that these are not good reasons (I have friends who have had very severe PND and it seems a totally sane reaction to think "I never want to go through that again"), but it does seem like you should talk to someone professionally trained and neutral about the pros and cons of abortion versus drugs to manage your condition (as some people have already said, there are anti depressants you can take while pregnant).

Second, your reaction to the prospect of a nanny and your automatic assumption that you'd be breast feeding also sound to me like the depression talking. Having had depression (both PND and a period earlier in my life of reactive depression), once you're already down, your psyche seems to take over and you start beating yourself up about nothing/guilt-tripping yourself. I found I couldn't breast feed (though I desperately wanted to) and on top of the PND it became an issue of earth shattering importance. Now, my feelings were as they were, and I'm not seeking to minimise them, but 6 years on I can now see that they were coming from a place where I'd lost all sense of perspective due to being ill (because depression is an illness). I suspect the same thought processes may be going on with you vis-a-vis a nanny. You wouldn't be "subcontracting" being a mother - you'd be getting help with the "grunt work" as I think of it - making sure the laundry's done, someone to chop the finger food while you play with duplo (or vice versa), someone to help with one children while the other has a toddler tantrum (or vice versa). It's not that you'd be leaving them while you swanned off to a spa for the day (and even if you were leaving them - so bloody what? I, due to financial necessity and the fact that I enjoy my job used a nursery 4 days a week with my son - didn't stop me being his mum, or playing with him, or reading him bedtime stories...)

Having said all this, it might equally well be that an abortion is right for you, and that the reason you only started to think about it 2 weeks ago was that the reality only hit 2 weeks ago - only you know this, which is why talking to someone without an agenda to push either way (and counsellors at BPAS/Stopes do not have an agenda either way) would be a great thing.

Good luck (and do get this thread moved to ante natal choices before the loons move in).

I have exactly the same age gap as you will - ds1 had just turned 4 and dd was 2 and a bit when ds2 came along. I spent the first half of the pregnancy very reached from the baby, had no emotions at the first scan at 12 weeks, and secretly wished it was going to show no baby. It wasn't until 16 weeks when I was rushed into hospital with severe stomach pains and I thought I was going to lose the baby that I realised I did want the baby after all.
Ds2 is now 3 and I couldn't love him more, it has been hard with 3, but the older 2 are at school now and ds2 is at playschool and it's getting easier.

70 I wish it waa my gp but it was a stand in gp at our surgery.

As someone has mentioned pregnancy is short and the hardest part is settling in, it wont take forever for you to set a routine.
Im still shitting it but ive managed and will have to for the sake of the dc.
Your dh sounds reasonable about a nanny if you can afford it. I understand the palming kids of situation but your trying to do good by them by having an extra adult to help.

If you don't feel you can cope, a termination would be preferable to an unwanted child. I was a third child, unexpected and unwanted. My mother mentioned this as a teenager.

Yanbu i was in a very similar situation with being pregnant and still having pnd from dc 1i was terrified and was seriously considering an abortion but i went to my gp who was great he said there so much support for depression in pregnancy i was able to remain on my medication and got cbt as well im so glad i didnt go through with the abortion. But its your choice and no one should judge you for it.