MP's to debate school holiday rules/fines on 24th February

[mummymeister]

Please can I ask anyone who feels as strongly as I do to write to their MP and ask for the changes in the rules regarding school holidays to be reversed. there is a back bench debate at 4.30pm on the 24th February and it is really important to bring this issue to the fore. There have been so many stories on MN of people wanting a day for funeral, to attend a family event, to visit family abroad that I know if all of us affected or who feel strongly write in at least we will have tried.

[Wishihadabs]

We have some Italian friends which just cannot understand that this is the case now in the uk. They keep saying come to Italy in May we keep saying we can't take the dcs out of school even for a long weekend, they just can't believe it. They take their dcs out 4 or 5 times a year.

But those are the rules and I'm not sure it's such a bad thing.

[thenamestheyareachanging]

I wrote to my MP before seeing this thread, OP. I am a responsible parent and wish to be treated as such. I don't want to sign away my right to make decisions about my childrens education and best interests, if I should choose to send them to school.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

I enrolled my children into a school where we were able to take up to two weeks a year. I expected these terms to continue throughout my children's education but its been stolen away from under our feet. I didn't agree to that

And there's the whole problem in a nutshell ... what was previously a bit of leeway (with the school's authorisation) came to be seen as an absolute right

Sorry, but the "I want" crowd really do need to acknowledge their own part in the recent changes - except I realise that's just not going to happen

[EmmelineGoulden]

tiggy I think 1996 is quite new :D

[Grennie]

What do parents do who work in jobs where they are not allowed annual leave off over the school holidays. I used to work in a job like this.

[lljkk]

If 1+ kids off was so important to the education of the rest then the chickenpox vaccine should become compulsory. > half the class was off for at least a week in reception as a result of a chickenpox outbreak in DD's reception group. Caused complete chaos for the Nativity play that year. That's an occasion where absence of one truly did affect many.

I'm just looking for impossible consistency, I guess.

[MisForMumNotMaid]

DH is a teacher, we have three DC. My eldest two are at different schools, youngest is preschool. This year we have a three day Easter holiday overlap (DH has teaching commitments pre exams), most of Christmas and five weeks in the summer. We have had seperate half terms etc so other than the very expensive summer/ inpractical Christmas holidays we can't holiday together.

I've been very tempted to pull the DC for a day so we could have a long weekend when its not really busy everywhere (eldest is Autistic) and doesn't bankrupt us.

[lljkk]

Question for the school management gurus:

Were schools always judged for attendance like they are now? I mean, did attendance %s always go into the leadership, behaviour, safety & management ratings like they do now? Or has the importance of attendance in the Ofsted rating changed in the last year (as well as the language change to exceptional circumstances)?

Coz it's really obvious to me that schools are running scared, they don't want any absences because they're acting proactively to defend their next Ofsted rating.

[kerplunker]

Yes and this is what is leading to a very high number of illegal exclusions which really harms the child's education and wellbeing - much more so than a holiday ever would.

It is absolutely shameful that Head Teachers would rather act illegally and cause emotional harm to a child than record absences that would harm their Ofsted rating.

[lljkk]

sorry, numpty here, how does an illegal exclusion not get recorded as an absence same as a legal exclusion? They are both absences, right?
DD will have an educational absence 2 days next month due to a violin workshop (authorised by school). Just like she's had time off of school to go to several sporting competitions. Her mates had an afternoon off recently to go do fundraising for charity. Presumably this will be at great detriment to their other subjects... (or not ).

Just like skiing trips thru school are educational, but skiing with the family is terribly detrimental.
Supposedly...

[JohnnyBarthes]

Not that it's a huge deal, but ds's school go skiing in February half term - I think this is quite common.

[OneInEight]

sorry, numpty here, how does an illegal exclusion not get recorded as an absence same as a legal exclusion? They are both absences, right?

In our experience either not recorded at all because school rang up after registration to ask for child to be collected or entered as "educated off site".

[prh47bridge]

The state's involvement in this area dates back at least to the 1996 Education Act

It goes back much further than that. Under the Education Act 1944 if a child registered at a school failed to attend regularly the parents were guilty of an offence and could be fined. The fines increased with each offence and after three offences the parents could be imprisoned. In real terms the fines were somewhat higher in 1944 than they are now.

I don't know about you but that is definitely before I was born! So not new at all.

And Puzzledandpissedoff is quite right that a large part of the problem was parents viewing two weeks a year off as a right. It was never a right. It was only ever intended to be allowed in special circumstances.

[EmmelineGoulden]

I didn't realise that bridge. Even I see that as quite a while!

So it existed but was used sparingly rather than as a way to try to change mass behaviour until this century?

I'm not sure about this "new" attitude of parents to a right to a holiday. Absence rates haven't been rising.

[rollonthesummer]

I would be interested to know how many MPs send their children to state school; what percentage of those discussing this situation this afternoon does this actually affect? Otherwise it's a case of the 'posh folk' deciding that this institutionalisation is fine for the plebs so long as it doesn't affect them?!

More importantly, they can say that the rules should stand and 'we're all in this together' but then they can actually afford the prices so will continue going abroad in the school holidays :(

[rollonthesummer]

I think a large part of the problem is that many Tory MPs will know very few families using state education.

I totally agree. It's not fair though!!

[JohnnyBarthes]

More likely, people objected to not being able to send their children out to work, and employers objected to not being able to employ them. Historically, education acts set out to protect children. I genuinely believe that to still be the case.

[mummymeister]

I hope that the debate is on the TV this afternoon so I can spot if my MP has in fact turned up. I will also be really interested to hear what is said. true a lot of the MP's may privately educate their kids but surely they can see how much grief the new changes are genuinely causing. Johnny of course education acts set out to protect children but how can this interpretation of the rules be right? I don't want to send my kids out to work. Other countries seem to be able to sort this out, why cant we. I just worry that at the end of the year, Gove the great and powerful is going to stand up and say how fab he is for having got absences down. the real issues about education just are not being addressed. if absence is wrong then why are there any exemptions. why is religious grounds more important than attending a family funeral. why does the religion card trump everything else like your employment rules or employers situation. does this also mean that end of year GCSE grades will in fact be much higher this year due to all the extra education these students are getting because they aren't being allowed leave?

[ReallyTired]

Could we have the gove rules on attendence apply to some weeks of the academic year only?Prehaps some weeks could be fun weeks and attendence would be optional. External providers could come in and this would allow some teachers to go on holiday if they wanted to. Teachers who did not want to go on holiday could provide remedial tution for children who have missed too much school or are behind.

Prehaps iI am being silly, but we need to increase the choice of weeks that people can go away. We need to think how we can make schools more flexible to meet the need of families. People who want more weeks of the year than they get at present could pay fees.

[mummymeister]

Reallytired. it takes thought, imagination, money and planning to do something flexible to meet families needs. can you really see the ConDems doing that? Me neither. one size fits all is cheap. it puts the burden on the head to be the big bad wolf when they refuse leave. this change was rushed through. it was done following a flawed report into attendance and attainment. There are loads of different options that the Govt could have gone for that would have made more sense and made life just that bit easier for families. for a start, repeal the Gove rule and start a consultation. what is the real issue with non attendance. is it really families taking a week out or you/me taking our child to a funeral?

[TitsalinaBumSquash]

Ugh, this is something that's been really getting my goat. I know our situation is unique but I still expect for the school to turn down my request for a week off later this year.

My son has a life limiting condition, I have bent over backwards to make his appointments out of school time, some of his inpatient stays are 2 weeks plus. I make sure these are always in summer holidays and the shorter stays are in half term, which leaves me with the problem of there not being any holiday time left and I'm sorry but my son won't be around for as long as lost children, I want to show him all aspects of life while I can.

He has been begging along with his little brother to go camping for years now, this year we are going, we are spending a week before half term (and a hospital stay) in Devon so hardly a golden beach in the sun somewhere.

If I get any opposition I will be looking at other education options, I do my part for every other week of huge year to make sure my children are in school when they should be, they need a break, I need a break, DP needs a break. So we're taking one.

I'll be honest with the school, I had a fleeting moment of claiming we all had fly or similar but I'll not be made into a liar because of a ridiculous rule brought in by government to control us.

I think that is they can't abolish these ridiculous fines they need to give us the option of appealing them, which is what I'd do if they fine us for this upcoming camping trip. However I've been told that appealing isn't currently an option

[rollonthesummer]

Goodness knows what it will be like if Gove makes school compulsory from 8am-6pm and reduces the holidays to help working parents :(