to think my marriage is over?

[frenchdramaqueen]

First time poster, really need some perspective... so here goes. DH and I have been going through a rough time and had a massive row tonight. We have a 3-yo DD and tonight my DH basically threw to my face that the reason why we have been so stressed and at each other throat is because I (on my own) decided to go back to work after having her. He also said he understood my reasons for wanting to do so (that is I like my job and my independence, plus I would feel miserable as a Sahm) but since it was my decision and I have not given him any choice in the matter, I should assume the consequences! WTF!
DH is quite stressed at work, we both work FT (I was actually Pt for the first 2 Years I went back to work, gradually increasing my hours), the deal is he gets DD ready for the CM to pick her at home in the morning (I leave home at 7 for work) and I have to be home at 6 when the CM drops her. Now we have agreed that 1 day a week, I do the morning shift with DD (sounds awful but yswim) so that I can stay later at work. My workload has increased a lot in recent years and this is a solution I found so that once a week i am not so stressed having to finish all at 5 before I have to rush home as he does this. He agreed to this, which is great as he has a job with more responsibilities than I do, and I appreciate he is willing to do it. I can be quite stressed by work too but try not to bring this home. Tbh i have to as DD can be quite challenging at times and every night there is at least one drama (she does not want to shower, brush her teeth, efc.... normal behaviour of a child trying to test her parents limits anyway) so I need the headspace to stay calm and patient. DD behaviour has been a source of disputes because it is wearing both of us down and we disagree on how to deal with it. I think we should not tolerate this type of behaviour but keep calm nonetheless (DD is familiar with time out of course, so I am not that laxist) DH thinks af some point and not systematically there is nothing wrong with smacking... also he said a few times that DD is manipulative and evil, which upsets me a lot as I do not think such a young child actively thinks that she wants to make her parents feel miserable. Finally I have the feeling that DH does not appreciate me as a person, it is little things like him constantly pulling me out on my untidiness (although he admits he is a bit Ocd, he picks up crumbs on the floor with his thumb as soon as he sees them, moans about DD sometimes dropping food on the floor..) and my carelessness (ok I am not big on putting things away after use etc..) I have come to think everything I do is irritating him. I have tried to discussthis with him, but when I told him I thought he did not like me and i was sad and confused he was quite dismissive of my feelings and basically said sonething like don't be stupid and also got very defensive. I guess I was expecting another response, he is supposed to love me ffs and not belittle my feelings and LISTEN. Yet when I said that to him, he told me it was typical of me to judge him on everything he says or does, that I was a control freak (which is ironic since he also thinks I am a permissive mother and sloppy) ... I am not quite sure he thinks what he says or he is just trying to win the argument. Which would be worse in a way, I do not think it should matter who is right or wrong, we just need to work it out... truth is I do not know what to think anymore, I am doubting myself. Am I supposed to feel like a child as i do now, he obviously thinks I am unreasonable... am I? Thanks for all replies, I have been read so many threads trying to find answers to my questions but there is no other way to know than to post I guess...

[arethereanyleftatall]

ordinarily I would,say working full time with a young child is stressful and tiring, so you need to cut each other done slack.
But some things stand out from your post as being unacceptable - evil child? washing dishes a priority when you haven't seem a child all day? . This is nonsense.
Yanbu.
Is one of the reasons you don't want to cut back on your hours, out of principal, because it would seem like you're giving in to him?
1 thing I would definitely stop is daily showers for your dd if she doesn't want to. Pick your battles, daily showers are unnecessary.

[MarlenaGru]

This was us a few years ago. DH seemed to believe his career should be unchanged by having a child and mine should take a backseat so I could do all sick days, early pick ups etc.

I can recommend getting some counselling or finding a mediator as it is impossible to have a discussion that actually goes anywhere when you are both exhausted and dealing with a small child. Next year your child will start school and then things really become challenging unless you have extra childcare around. We have an au pair which gives us flexibility if one of us desperately has to work late and the other can't be home. The brunt of the early pick ups is still on my shoulders but we both work as a team to do things without trying to compete about who has the most important meeting today...

[frenchdramaqueen]

Regarding the evil comment, he meant it in the way of saying sly, and he was angry both times he said it. Thing is our DD is quite clever and switched on (I know many parents say this but school and CM have mentioned it too so not just me) and more importantly she is very mature emotionally (again relying on teacher's comments here). I think because of this, it is easy somehow to forget she is just 3 (and a half). Do not want to make it sound like DH hates his own child, he really adores her and also thinks smacking is the last resort when you have asked the same thing several times to a child and she just ignores it, laughs or does not respond to time out (sometimes I keep putting her back in the time out spot and she keeps getting up and laughing as it is a game). It does look ridiculous to spend 30 minutes doing this but I am trying to be consistent with it. Also I am french, so when I wrote smacking, not sure I used the right word, DH thinks a smack on the bottom is ok but a slap is not. If that makes sense....

[Quinteszilla]

If your dd hardly sees her parents between 8 am and 6pm, 10 hours of the day, and all she does with you is the bed time routine, no wonder she is playing up and trying to assert her personality, needs and wants.

What are the weekends like?
Do you think the 20 hours you spend with her over the weekend provides a great balance to the 50 hours the childminder sees her during the week?

[dreamingbohemian]

I think you and your DH are fundamentally incompatible, and that's really the problem.

Of course both parents can work FT and have a good home life. All the posters saying you need to cut your hours are just doing what your husband is doing -- oh, that's the easiest solution, just do that. But I think it is valid to consider the long-term impact of cutting back on work, and I don't like that you're the only one who's supposed to be making that sacrifice.

But both parents working FT only works when parents can work as a team and support each other. And basically, you and your husband are not compatible at all when it comes to discipline, housework and a number of other things, it sounds like.

These things don't matter so much pre-children but of course now are taking over.

I don't really see how you working less solves THIS problem. Your DD is not going to magically become the perfect child just because you see her more, so you will still fight about discipline. The housework still won't be done as he likes because you are not as anal about it.

Is counseling an option? Because I don't see how you two can solve these problems yourselves. But I think it's entirely fair for you to think about whether you really want to stay in this marriage.

[frenchdramaqueen]

Hi, yes I see her for the bedtime routine only, of course I would like to see her more. What I miss is that we do not sit together for tea as DD has tea at the CM. It was such an important time of the day for me growing up, but this is the arrangement as the CM looks after other children and it would not make sense for DD not to have dinner when other kids do. That would be mean actually. On week ends she is very excited to take meals with us, she always wants to see what we are doing ib the kitchen. DH is a vey good cook and does a lot around the house, all saturday morning is spent cleaning and tydying up, he probably does more than I do to be honest on these days. We are both fine with it as when he does I get DD ready and do other things with her. Maybe I should do more around the house, I don't know. I would clean something and then he would do it again after me so sometimes I feel it is better I do not bother at all.. am I being a princess by acting that way? It used to drive me crazy before we even had DD, I think it is his way of destressing after work, he needs to do something with his hands, so I have learned to accept it and not take it personnally if he cleans the kitchen sink when I have just done it. Sounds like I am picking up my battles but not with the right one ; )

[arethereanyleftatall]

Your last post defending your dh says a lot to me. You want to make this work. So, have a sensible unstressed discussion with him how to take this forward. Could you employ a nanny rather than a cm- there are some that will be happy to clean house for you at same time. My friends nanny even batch makes Bolognese etc. make sure you spend plenty if quality time as a family over weekends. Good luck.

[ItitwrongtofancyHarryStyles]

I do think you have the balance wrong for your family.

I'm a working mother so I am not judging.

I don't think you or your dd is happy with this dynamic.

Re his cleaning - if you feel he is undermining and criticising you by cleaning things you've already cleaned then this is a problem. If you are not very good at cleaning (I'm not!) and he's not doing it to put you down that's a different matter. Either way, obviously don't bother doing stuff you know he will clean!

[perfectstorm]

Can you afford a cleaner, to come in every day?

I think if DD is settled with her CM and enjoys spending time with the other kids there, that's a positive and probably best not to move her. But someone to lift the household chores, so you can actually relax when at home and enjoy your child, is a good idea if remotely affordable.

[dreamingbohemian]

I also think a nanny would solve quite a few problems here. Perhaps it would help get things to a point where you can more calmly discuss the other problems.

[Quinteszilla]

So, if you are sad to not spend more time with her, regret not giving her the upbringing you yourself got, why do you dig your heals in and keep increasing your working hours? To spite your dh? To make a point to him? Or do you really need to work so much to make ends meet?

Why not have a serious discussion with him that you would love to be home more, but for that to happen, he would have to earn a higher salary, and how does he feel about taking on this responsibility for you to decrease your hours? Would your CM fees come down by you working less?

[LEMmingaround]

I am sad to read that posters dont think that its a long day for the mother. I WAS TALKING ABOUT A 3 YEAR OLD CHILD

[Fairenuff]

somebody needs to put your daughter first and it doesn't sound like either of you are doing that at the moment

I agree with this.

It sounds like a competition between your and your dh about whose job is the most important.

The fair solution would be for one of you to cut back your hours now and the other to do it in a couple of years time. That way, you could both maintain your careers.

But neither of you will do this.

So, if you are sad to not spend more time with her, regret not giving her the upbringing you yourself got, why do you dig your heals in and keep increasing your working hours? To spite your dh? To make a point to him? Or do you really need to work so much to make ends meet?

I would also like to know the answer to this. Also, I asked earlier how it will be any easier for you if you separate? Presumably you would still want to work the same hours, so you would still have the same childcare problems.

[LEMmingaround]

Nobody on their death bed has expressed the regret that they didn't work more, EVER!

OP you are missing out on your DD's formative years, you are not bringing your DD up, the CM is.

I am not saying you should give up work, far from it, i think you absolutely do need to keep your hand in, i didn't do this and i do regret that, however i do NOT regret the time i had with my DD. As my DP says, they are young for such a short time, you just don't realise - and you never get that time back. We were looking at families on the beach today while DD was at a party and we were wtching the young children, both DP and myself felt wistful for that time - it was bloody hard work, but we have so many lovely memories.

You BOTH have your priorities wrong i'm afrad - It sounds like your DP would rather "do things with his hands" in the evenings rather than spending time with his daughter, you are not even home for meal times. Its madness, absolute madness - you need to address this before it becomes one of your life's biggest regrets. Saturday morning is taken up by cleaning? So your DD gets saturday afternoon and sunday then? oh and bedtimes, when her behaviour suggests that she is tired and fractious from a day that is too long for her.

[Fairenuff]

Thing is our DD is quite clever and switched on (I know many parents say this but school and CM have mentioned it too so not just me) and more importantly she is very mature emotionally (again relying on teacher's comments here).

Btw this shows that your dd is developing a coping mechanism. Often children like this try to be in control of what they can because they feel that so much of their life is out of control.

Very simply, 'If the adults are not going to care for me, I will care for myself' is the thought process behind it. These children often find it very difficult to let adults be in control when they get older which can lead to problems.

[Quinteszilla]

Financially you will shoot yourself in the foot by insisting HE works less hours, so that you can indulge in your right to be a career woman, and you wont get to spend more time with your child either. So a lose lose situation I would say!

[Quinteszilla]

My oldest son is 10.
Yesterday night he came down from his bed in tears.

He said "I am 11, dad is 41. In 10 years I will be more than 20 and I already regret not spending more time with him."

Dh works long hours, BUT he is always around for meal times, always hands on during the weekend, and take the kids to bed most evenings. He takes them swimming, skateboarding, jogging, cycling. STILL my son is sad he does not get enough time with his dad.

Your dd cannot quite vocalize her loss, and BOTH her parents are too busy for parenting. How do you think she feels?

(I work part time, from home, and studying for an MBA so I am around a lot)

[Rinoachicken]

I feel sorry for the daughter. I fear one day her parents will wake up and realise they don't know anything about her.

[frenchdramaqueen]

Ok point taken, we are both being selfish. I accept this has become a power struggle between us of whose job is more important. I think I am the one who needs to step back in my career. When I went back to work pt that was actually my thought process. I made my peace with being overlooked for promotion and I cannot work more hours than I do now. The fact is I have this job, I am quite good at it but i do not control my workload unfortunately, and when I went from 4 days a week to 5 days a week it worked out better, I was much less stressed ( when I was 4 days a week I needed to do a 5 day workload still...). What happened is a couple of years ago DH was made redundant and had to look for a new job for 5 months, I remember thinking thank god I have a job to keep us going. We could not have coped with my only salary for much longer, but at least he could look for a job he really liked and I encouraged him to aim high as I know he is very capable. So now he has a good job with responsibilities and decent pay, but the stress is eating him... we do not have to live like this, that much I know. Also he is working a lot at home on his freaking ipad and ok he is there, but not available anyway. I am trying to make him understand this is not on, he has nothing to prove to anyone... that just makes me sad that he cannot see that his daughter and I love and need him. Crying now ffs. We talked about having a 2nd child but lately he has been saying he was hoping the 2nd would be as difficult as DD. That is quite upsetting to me, what if the 2nd is difficult as well? And how did the well being of our child become my only responsability? It feels like some posts suggest I am not doing enough. However is it so stupid to stand my ground and basically say ok I am happy to compromise and take the back seat career wise (hell when thinking about a possible 2nd child I thought I would definitely take the whole year off and then return pt if I can and stick with this for as long as the children need it), but say I am not ready to sacrifice something that is important to me,that is having some form of financial and psychological independence by working. I feel I need to be true with myself, and that is an important lesson I want to pass on to my daughter. It is not all about me you know. Some parents are fine to SAH, some are not. I feel i am not. I would become a sahm if I felt I could not find adequate childcare and that DD was very troubled, no question. I feel awful that probably DD is acting up because she does not see enough of us. But at the moment I can't help but think she needs to see more of her dad..

[Fairenuff]

Your dd is not difficult. Her behaviour sounds normal for her age.

Why are you considering a second child when you don't even know if you want to stay with this man?

You and your dh need to make a plan. A five year plan. Agree what is going to happen workwise, childcarewise and houseworkwise and both sign it.

If you can't agree then, yes, you might be happier apart.

[Quinteszilla]

How can you think about a second child when you are unable to parent or willing to prioritise your first? Madness.

[manchestermummy]

What a sad, sad thread. How dare people accuse the op of "missing her daughter's formative years" because her DH is being an arse.

It is never easy to leave your child in the care of another person, and it disgusts me that people are suggestion that the issues with the behaviour of a three year old are down to said child developing a coping mechanism. Rubbish. I work: how awful. I must not to that because clearly i cannot know the first thing about my dc. Oh, yes, mortgage company, please do take my house.

The OP has asked for help, not judgement of her 'indulgent' career choices.

OP: you and your DH are not on the same page.

[Rinoachicken]

I think she needs to see more of BOTH of you. And it should not fall down to you alone to do this. IF you decide to reduce your hours (and that's if you want to) then your DH also needs to agree to stop bringing his work home with him and commit to some sacred time together AS A FAMILY.

Could you compromise by perhaps committing to being home in time for you to all eat together, since it's something you feel is important and you know your DD enjoys? Small changes like these could make a big difference to her. It give you time to talk about what has happened in the day in a relaxed way, she can help prepare the meal, lay the table, really feel part of the family rather than an inconvenience.

I don think it would be a great idea to bring a second DC into this right now. If your DD is already feeling like she doesn't see enough of you (and IMHO 20 hours out of 50 is nowhere near enough) then adding another child will just compound this.

[waterrat]

7-6 is an incredibly long day for a 3 year old - you and your partner need to find a way that you jointly get more time with your child.

I work and love it - so an not judging - but I work part time. You can pick your career up later - life is long - enjoy your daughter more and give her more family time.

[Quinteszilla]

I think they are very much on the same page, it is a page that is not very compatible with family life an bringing up a child,
Let alone two.