AIBU to be so cross with PIL over DD

[iamsoannoyed]

Well, I don't think I am being unreasonable to be annoyed but I would also like some perspective, as I am getting more and more annoyed over this. Very long, so apologies.

My DHs parents are very religious (FIL is a vicar). DH is not, although obviously was brought up in a religious household. He has not attended church regularly since he left home to go to university. In fact, I think the last time he went was when we stayed with them for christmas a few years ago. I am definitely not religious.

DH and I got married in a civil ceremony, although FIL gave a blessing afterwards as it meant a lot to him (and DH to have his dad do it)- which was nice. They were a little bit upset we chose not to have a religious ceremony, but it would have felt utterly hypocritical saying religious vows in church when I don't believe in any of it.

However, now PIL (well mostly MIL) are kicking up a fuss because we aren't getting our DD (their first GC) christened. DH and I spoke about it before she was born, and he isn't really bothered either way and I am against the whole idea, so we decided against it.

We hadn't discussed this with anyone else, as it really hadn't occurred to us that we would have to justify this decision.

Anyway, MIL told me a few days ago that they had "spoken to" BIL/SIL and they would be delighted to be god-parents and she was thinking the christening could be in the next few weeks- there were 2 free spaces at FIL church and which did we want? I was because I can't believe she thought it was up to her/them to decide our DD is getting christened, never mind organising said event without being asked to. Also, she has no business deciding who would be godparents, far less asking BIL and SIL to do it on our behalf.

I was pissed off, but I thought that she (mostly) meant well, was probably just a bit over excited and got ahead of herself (as she did after DD was born). I think she assumed that because religion is so important to her and because DH was christened, we would have DD christened too.

I tried to explain that DH and I had discussed it and decided against it. MIL got very upset and said it was selfish to deny our DD a welcoming to the community of the church, how could we exclude them from this etc etc. I told her it was really none of her business and to keep her opinions to herself. I thought that would be the end of it and decided to just ignore the stupidity of what MIL had done, and move on.

But no, we have had SIL (DH's sister) and BIL (DH's brother) on the phone, saying it is very selfish to deny PIL this, as it is really important to them. They are also hurt that godparent request has been revoked (as there is to be no christening).

I explained MIL had organised this and asked them without our knowledge or consent, but I was sorry they were upset re the godparent aspect. I also said that as DH is not religious and I am not religious. Why on earth would I want to stand up in church and pledge to bring my daughter according to the christian faith, when clearly this will not be the case? They still thought it was very unfair on MIL, I left it "we'll just have to agree to disagree".

Anyway, she's been on the phone to DH pleading to him to change his mind. He has said a firm "no", but she has been crying and making him feel terrible. We came up with a compromise- we have heard of other parents who have had civil naming ceremonies and thought that could give everyone the chance to welcome DD in a formal way, and FIL could do a blessing similar to that he did at our wedding so he could be involved.

FIL seemed happy with this, and was really touched to be asked. MIL, however, is still not happy as we are not going to be having a "proper christening" and won't be bring her DGD up in a religious way.

I am getting increasingly angry about this. The final straw was today, when she suggested they do the christening anyway but I "wouldn't have to be there" if I didn't like it.

I am now furious. I admit I lost my temper at the last conversation and told MIL to go take a running jump- there was no way that was happening, and I expected this to be the last conversation we have on the matter and until she could apologise she was to leave me alone and then hung up the phone.

MIL phoned DH, who pointed out she had gone a bit far- not that she was very apologetic to him and still insisted we were being unfair.

AIBU to demand an apology? And to want to minimise contact with MIL until she can accept the way we are choosing to bring up DD- I don't want MIL to ram religion down her throat against our wishes, and feel if she can't respect our wishes then she can only have supervised contact (not such a problem now, as DD is very small).

By the way, FIL has been very reasonable and given he's the vicar, I thought he'd be more upset than MIL.

[Funnyfoot]

YANBU

This was my situation 8 years ago.
My PIL are Catholic, DH was brought up hugely involved in the church until he was 18. He left home and hasn't stepped in a church since (he's 46).
We had the tears from PIL. The pleading. The emotional blackmail "we are getting on in years and it would make us happy before we die!"
I was the calm one (for a change) and DH kept losing it with his parents as it was all they went on about. In the end we sat them down and the conversation went like this.

"We are not religious. We are the DC's parents and how they are brought up is down to us. As the DC's grow up they will be exposed to all kinds of religion and will at some point choose for themselves if the want to follow/be part of a certain group. We will except their choices because we love them. If you see your religion as being more important that allowing your grandchildren the opportunity to grow and develop their own minds then we need to re-think how much of an influence you will have in their lives."

This didn't go down well however they knew we would not back down and they relaxed on the subject.
My eldest DS is now 10 and has chosen for the last year to attend the PIL church with them whenever we visit. DH and I have no problem with this as it is his choice and he openly says how much he enjoys it and the calming affect he feels when he has attended mass.

PIL have recently told us they were wrong. They have said that when they attend church with DS they know it is because he wants to be there. They admitted they see many children in church who are bored, restless not happy and clearly forced to attend. DS sits, listens and happy to be there because he wants to be.

[TamerB]

Very sensible moto. I have never been keen on head on collisions, I have smiled, nodded and ignored. In the end it has been seen as a virtue that 'I know my own mind'! (All without a cross word )

[ViviPru]

too upset to discuss the matter, and will certainly not be apologising to me as I was rude to her first

How very bloody frustrating. Silly, silly woman. Prioritising religion and outward appearances over harmonious relationships with family. I suspect you have to steel yourself for her never to compromise in her thinking.

You've handled this really well, given the circumstances, OP.

[ViviPru]

I just listened and smiled and nodded

Ahh, the tried and tested Recipe For An Harmonious Life™ . Never fails.

[TamerB]

However OP's MIL may need more than the 'smile nod' approach- you have my sympathies. Bypass and work through FIL is my advice.

[Twattyzombiebollocks]

Yanbu. I would tell her categorically that just as it was her choice to have her child baptised it is your choice not to have your child baptised. Reiterate that you are happy to have a naming ceremony and for her to be involved in that with a blessing from fil included in the ceremony. Tell her that any further attempts to organise a baptism on your behalf will lead to her only seeing your child under supervision as you can't trust her not to take it upon herself to have your child baptised without your consent (although I think she would struggle tbh as I'm pretty sure it has to be the parents who present the child for baptism or in their absence a legal guardian)
It's all about trust isn't it?

[HoneyandRum]

OP I have not read through the entire thread but I am a practicing, believing Catholic and YANBU. It is obviously completely wrong and inappropriate to pressure/emotionally blackmail anyone to to do anything religious, unbelieving or not. If they are Anglican then like Catholics they will believe in free will. To go against a person's free will is wrong in everyway. I agree with others who mention that your FIL seems much more understanding and I think if this has to be discussed anymore (I hope not) then discuss it with him.

I don't know what your MIL's motivations are but it can often be the case in family relationships that everyone is running on assumptions. Perhaps your MIL was assuming that your DH would "go along" with having your DD Christened because maybe when with his parents and siblings he has kept silence about religious matters to keep the family peace. It often seems quite common that people who never go to church and even who don't seem to believe still Christen their children (the Hatch, Match and Dispatch crowd). I am not defending your MIL in any way, it just seems once the GC appear that things come out in the open that had been assumptions before. Your MIL may have always assumed any GC would be welcomed into the church.

FWIW by own MIL attempted to put immense emotional pressure on myself and my DH on various issues and she still will try and emotionally manipulate and guilt-trip my DH at times. Maybe for some people when their children become grownups they just find it very hard to transition from being able to tell them what do to as children. The only tool they seem to have left is emotional pressure.

I think you were being more than generous and very understanding offering to have a naming ceremony with a blessing. Keep holding your ground, don't be nasty but just say the discussion is over and decision made.

[hoobypickypicky]

"she thinks our wishes regarding DD are so insignificant when compared to her own and that she actually thinks her opinion carries equal weight with ours."

To which the only response is "It isn't happening and it isn't up for discussion. We make the decisions about our child, no-one else. If you continue to try to undermine our decisions and insist upon trying to force your superstitions upon our child we may have to decide that it's not in her interest for you to have contact with her any longer. I have nothing more to say about the matter".

That^ would be the polite version.

[FeelingGrinchy]

I can't believe she tried to choose the godparents! I would be even more upset about that than about the christening if it were me. We aren't religious and haven't baptised our DC, but we have chosen "secular godparents" for each child and these choices were very important to us. It's not the grandparents' decision to make.

[bodygoingsouth]

hi op. yes if course your mil is acting like a loon.

however starting WW3 about this just isn't worth it. she isn't going anywhere and she is airways going to be dhs mum and your dds gran.

don't phone or contact her, let her stew. get your dh to tell her categorically no you are not having her baptised and she won't be taken to church unless of course she chooses to go when she is older. none of you can control that.

as for posters saying don't allow her contact? why? anyone can run a babies head under a tap and baptise them saying the correct words. read the bible. it's nothing to do with a church or ceremony. if mil is nutty enough to do this then so what? if you think it's all twaddle anyway then no harm will be done.

you have set out your stall and she will learn to live with it. end of.

[pictish]

Couldn't agree with bodygoingsouth more!

I do not see that this issue is even remotely worth having a feud and creating a rift over.
As for cutting contact between grandmother and grandchild...drastic and needless.

You just keep saying no, and refuse to discuss it any more. Let your dh negotiate this with his parents, specifically with his mother, and stick pleasantly but firmly to NO.

[ifyourehoppyandyouknowit]

I think you have been stunningly patient and calm. MIL will either get over it, or she won't, but just keep being firm and doing the Nod And Smile. YASNBU.

[LoonvanBoon]

YANBU! Agree with wouldbemedic - this isn't about baptism, it's about boundaries. Smiling, nodding & then doing your own thing is not going to work with someone who's behaving like your MIL.

You & DH need to set the boundaries & enforce them - er - religiously. Don't let anyone force you into self-justification & having to explain your reasons over & over again. You don't need to - this is your child, & your MIL has to respect that you will bring her up according to your own beliefs & values.

Don't think you need to make long-term decisions about the nature of your DD's contact with GPs just now. Focus on the boundaries, use broken record techniques if necessary. Your MIL may respond quite well & start behaving more respectfully, you never know. If she doesn't, she'll be the one to lose out, sadly.

[TinyTear]

YANBU

I was raised Catholic and my DH isn't even christened.
I haven't really been to church properly for 10 years or more. Even after I left home I sometimes did go to church, but after one ranting and raving anti-abortion lecture i decided not to go again.

Still we got married in church as it meant a bit to me (can't deny 25 years of brainwashing growing up) but we decided not to baptise our children

so far my parents mentioned it once and I changed subject and that was that... she can choose when she is older but now she is only 2 and i won't do it...

[youarewinning]

YAsoNBU on any level.

My DS friends DF is a pastor. Christian but a different 'type' of Christian from us. He has always included DS in anything church wise - including youth club but never sought to change us to Lutheran. In turn I respect I can't take communion in the Lutheran church because I'm CoE.

It's about mutual respect for others choices and decisions. Nothing to do with being included in communities. Let's face it - your DD will not be wearing any obvious signage that indicates she is not christened.

[thegreylady]

It makes me a bit sad that dd chose not to have the boys christened. Her dh was indifferent. They said they wanted their children to make up their own minds. However, dgs1 is nearly 8 and asked why he wasn't christened! She says that if he wants it she will arrange it when he is 10. I had a similar problem when dd was a baby and my dh didn't want her christened. He agreed to it because it mattered to me. The minister opened the ceremony by saying, "this child is brought by her mother, with the consent of her father". I would never ever try to pressurise dd and dsil about choices they make for their dc. I had my turn with my own dc.

[BrunoBrookesDinedAlone]

I would be FURIOUS.

Not about the fact that it's about a christening. It doesn't matter really what the subject matter is. What would be utterly beyond the pale for me is the fact that your MIL thinks she has the right to dictate to ans decide for you (if you don't agree with her) on key matters concerning your child and how you parent.

Yes I would make a stand - because I would see that as the best way to ensure that this attitude is nipped right in the bud and this ensure that you don't end up with a complete falling out. Because if you let this slide then that is what might well happen.

I would ask your DH to make it crystal clear to FIL (this being probably the best way to get it across to MIL without more confrontation) that:

1. This is not about christening. This is about her having the utter gall to imagine that she has the right to dictate parenting choices. She does not, she never will have, and should she continue to behave as if she does then she will find herself seeing a hell of a lot less of her granddaughter.
   

1. The apology is not for the argument or the shouting. Damn right you got angry first- she behaved utterly inappropriately. THAT BEHAVIOUR is what she owes you an apology for, not for shouting. Until you get that apology and it is clear that MIL understands that she utterly crossed the line, you (and therefore DD) won't be seeing her.
   

1. Something else that she might as well get straight in her head right now. You and DD come as a package and you always will. Her comment that 'you don't have to be there' seems to indicate that she feels some sort of possession of your DD as part of her family in a way that doesn't include you. Carry on thinking like that and you can assure her that she will end up less close to YOUR family and DD as a result. Fact: you, your DH and your DD are a primary family unit and that is the baseline - if she can't respect that, as FIL evidently can - she will lose out.
   

Nip, nip, nip all this in the bud NOW, before 'MIL from hell' gets a chance to develop!

[Jux]

DD chose her own godparents (who were both Christian) and sings in CoE church every Sunday morning. Nevertheless, she herself is not a Christian. None pf this stops her holding Christian values, or her godparents (when they were alive) encouraging them in her. She simply has a slightly different slant on it all. The two faiths are not incompatible.

Furthermore, ime atheists tend to live by Christian values as they are generally social mores, and are also reflected in our laws. In other words, you don't have to be religious to be a good person

[tobiasfunke]

I must be a bit of a sap but we had DS christened by an old friend who is a vicar because both my mother and PIL really wanted it. We didn't have it in a church so it wasn't that religious. I was happy to go along with it as it was pretty meaningless to us but it made them happy. My mother wanted it more than I didn't.
However if they had tried to force us I would've dug my heels in and said no. The stupid thing is your MIL has put you in a position where you can't change your mind without losing face. Don't discuss it- let your DH do it.

[LittleBabyPigsus]

Off topic slightly but:

youarewinning the CoE is in full communion with the Lutheran church so you can in fact take Communion there. I am surprised you have been told otherwise. Generally as an Anglican the only church you can't take Communion in is the Catholic church, most Protestant churches would happily let you take Communion.

[Amber76]

I have an Aunt who I think is absolutely amazing - I really love and respect her. She is Catholic. I'm not religious at all.

I just couldn't believe it when she told me that it upset her hugely that her eldest gc wasn't to be baptised...so much so that she ran the childs head under a tap in the bathroom upstairs and said whatever you say in those situations!!!

This is a woman who is very highly educated, very emotionally intelligent, etc. - I didn't discuss it with her but I would sort of put it down to brainwashing when she was young. She said she couldn't sleep with anxiety at the time.

Op - you are not unreasonable at all, I would be furious if I was you.

[anothernumberone]

Generally as an Anglican the only church you can't take Communion in is the Catholic church

You learn something new every day I thought catholics and anglicans were in full communion as both believed in transubstantiation I totally had it backwards.

OP YADDDDDDDNBU however I totally agree with Pictish since your FIL has clearly stated that the baptism will not happen without your agreement I think it would be foolhardy to cut ties not that you have suggested you will. She is being outrageous. I have heard of people going behind parents backs and baptising children which is beyond outrageous