AIBU to be so cross with PIL over DD

[iamsoannoyed]

Well, I don't think I am being unreasonable to be annoyed but I would also like some perspective, as I am getting more and more annoyed over this. Very long, so apologies.

My DHs parents are very religious (FIL is a vicar). DH is not, although obviously was brought up in a religious household. He has not attended church regularly since he left home to go to university. In fact, I think the last time he went was when we stayed with them for christmas a few years ago. I am definitely not religious.

DH and I got married in a civil ceremony, although FIL gave a blessing afterwards as it meant a lot to him (and DH to have his dad do it)- which was nice. They were a little bit upset we chose not to have a religious ceremony, but it would have felt utterly hypocritical saying religious vows in church when I don't believe in any of it.

However, now PIL (well mostly MIL) are kicking up a fuss because we aren't getting our DD (their first GC) christened. DH and I spoke about it before she was born, and he isn't really bothered either way and I am against the whole idea, so we decided against it.

We hadn't discussed this with anyone else, as it really hadn't occurred to us that we would have to justify this decision.

Anyway, MIL told me a few days ago that they had "spoken to" BIL/SIL and they would be delighted to be god-parents and she was thinking the christening could be in the next few weeks- there were 2 free spaces at FIL church and which did we want? I was because I can't believe she thought it was up to her/them to decide our DD is getting christened, never mind organising said event without being asked to. Also, she has no business deciding who would be godparents, far less asking BIL and SIL to do it on our behalf.

I was pissed off, but I thought that she (mostly) meant well, was probably just a bit over excited and got ahead of herself (as she did after DD was born). I think she assumed that because religion is so important to her and because DH was christened, we would have DD christened too.

I tried to explain that DH and I had discussed it and decided against it. MIL got very upset and said it was selfish to deny our DD a welcoming to the community of the church, how could we exclude them from this etc etc. I told her it was really none of her business and to keep her opinions to herself. I thought that would be the end of it and decided to just ignore the stupidity of what MIL had done, and move on.

But no, we have had SIL (DH's sister) and BIL (DH's brother) on the phone, saying it is very selfish to deny PIL this, as it is really important to them. They are also hurt that godparent request has been revoked (as there is to be no christening).

I explained MIL had organised this and asked them without our knowledge or consent, but I was sorry they were upset re the godparent aspect. I also said that as DH is not religious and I am not religious. Why on earth would I want to stand up in church and pledge to bring my daughter according to the christian faith, when clearly this will not be the case? They still thought it was very unfair on MIL, I left it "we'll just have to agree to disagree".

Anyway, she's been on the phone to DH pleading to him to change his mind. He has said a firm "no", but she has been crying and making him feel terrible. We came up with a compromise- we have heard of other parents who have had civil naming ceremonies and thought that could give everyone the chance to welcome DD in a formal way, and FIL could do a blessing similar to that he did at our wedding so he could be involved.

FIL seemed happy with this, and was really touched to be asked. MIL, however, is still not happy as we are not going to be having a "proper christening" and won't be bring her DGD up in a religious way.

I am getting increasingly angry about this. The final straw was today, when she suggested they do the christening anyway but I "wouldn't have to be there" if I didn't like it.

I am now furious. I admit I lost my temper at the last conversation and told MIL to go take a running jump- there was no way that was happening, and I expected this to be the last conversation we have on the matter and until she could apologise she was to leave me alone and then hung up the phone.

MIL phoned DH, who pointed out she had gone a bit far- not that she was very apologetic to him and still insisted we were being unfair.

AIBU to demand an apology? And to want to minimise contact with MIL until she can accept the way we are choosing to bring up DD- I don't want MIL to ram religion down her throat against our wishes, and feel if she can't respect our wishes then she can only have supervised contact (not such a problem now, as DD is very small).

By the way, FIL has been very reasonable and given he's the vicar, I thought he'd be more upset than MIL.

[theborrower]

YADNBU. I would be furious. Bloody furious!!

My DH and I were both raised Catholic but are atheist. Our parents were disappointed that we wanted a civil ceremony but we were very firm that there was no way we were getting married in a church because it was wrong and would make us all hypocrites. They understood, even if they did make their disappointment known. I remember my mum saying, in a nice surprised way but still, "this is actually quite a nice wedding!".

DH's granny was upset though and tried to get our parents to convince us to get the priest round to marry us properly.

When we had DD we got asked several times if she was being baptised, before they got the message that No, definitely not. DH's granny though was upset again and has asked the parents again if they can get us to do it. She lives abroad though, so she's not in our face about it.

The first time you leave your child alone with these people they will christen her. Mark my words.

My mum said if my granny was still alive, she would have had the priest round to do it in the kitchen sink. I don't doubt it. Be wary of this...!

You need to tell your MIL she's been way out of order and stick to your guns. Repeat yourself ad nauseum, and until she gets the message, limit your visits because it will just get upsetting for everyone until she can just get over it.

[LittleBabyPigsus]

Also sorry but:

youarewinning the RCC doesn't even see Anglican priests as real priests! Generally Anglicans believe in consubstantiation or sacramental union (which is the same as the Lutheran belief, generally). Some are memorialists (ie believe it's just a symbol). A few at the very high end believe in transubstantiation, but it's not that common.

Sorry OP for hijacking!

[LittleBabyPigsus]

Peeking it's about PIL overstepping boundaries. It's OP's DC, not MIL's.

[iamsoannoyed]

Peeking

Yes, it is important to me. It's not just the actual christening in and of itself (although I am against it)- it's that MIL is quite clearly showing that she does not respect our decisions about our DD.

It may be the Christening at the moment but if we give into this, then what else will she expect to have the casting vote on? What kind of behaviour will we be expected to tolerate if she doesn't get her own way? If she believes she is entitled to plan major events in DDs life without our knowledge or consent, how can we trust her?

I am furious at her whole attitude and have really lost respect for her. I am also very sad on DHs behalf, he is very hurt at how she has dismissed his wishes.

MIl has been a bit overbearing since DD arrived, I had thought she would calm down once the initial excitement wore off, so bit my tongue at all but the worst of her excesses. I wish I'd been much firmer from the start.

[redexpat]

YANBU. She is OTT.

A good PA tactic may be to try and involve her in some other part of DCs life. "MIL could you knit some mittens and a bonnet? We just can't find anything suitable." Flatters, involves, but keeps her out of anything important.

[iamsoannoyed]

getthemoononastick

Well, yes we did discuss it before we got married. By "we" I mean DH and I. We discussed it and decided on a civil wedding service- PIL were disappointed, and MIL did have some tears etc, but nothing as major as this drama. DH and I decided not to christen our DD. Neither of those decisions is up for debate with DH parents.

I can understand that they are disappointed given their beliefs. If MIL had just been simply been expressing a little disappointment, then that would be irritating but I could live with it- but this is so far beyond that it's difficult to just ignore.

[Kundry]

Why on earth should the OP have discussed this before she got married? She's an atheist, so is her DH - what would they have needed to discuss?

My DH and I are atheists, it was obvious we would marry in a civil ceremony and if we have kids, they won't be christened. Both sets of parents were Christian, I suspect my PILs were disappointed we didn't get married in church but they understood we are adults who make our own choices so never said a word. Much as I dislike my MIL, I know she disagrees with several things about how her daughter parents the GCs - but she also knows they her GCs not her DCs so she goes along with it and doesn't say a word until SIL is out of the room when she starts rolling her eyes It's how normal grandparents behave.

[Nanny0gg]

The crux of the matter is the MiL's wish to dominate the family.

It doesn't matter whether it's about bedtimes, feeding, discipline or belief. She wants to have input domination. Therefore the OP and her DH are absolutely right to dig their heels in and if necessary, cut off contact until MiL sees the error of her ways and backs off. And promises to behave about such things in the future.

[wouldbemedic]

gotthemoononastick - What a very patronising and thoughtless thing to say. I could understand you criticising the OP for not having discussed christening with her partner at an earlier stage - but they're not at odds over this. There's no reason whatsoever why the OP and her partner should have reached an agreement on this issue with their parents!

[DonkeysDontRideBicycles]

OP and her DH have compromised already. FIL gave the happy couple a blessing after their civil ceremony. He was prepared to hold a blessing after DD's naming ceremony.

This isn't just between OP and MIL.

DH was prepared to settle down with someone who didn't share his family's beliefs. He 'married out'. Time for MIL to accept he is an adult now. He and OP decide their own beliefs and practices.

[Pobblewhohasnotoes]

If you don't believe anyway, would it matter if they got your daughter "christned"

Of course it matters, if you're an atheist. What a bizarre thing to say.

[FrequentFlyerRandomDent]

This is terribly sad.

This is just the right course of action on your MIL's part that will mean NC or little access to her GCs when eventually your DH and yourself will have had enough of the hysterics and demands.

My MIL is wonderful. She is so because she observed her female friends batter their DIL the way it was done to them in their time, and unsurprisingly one by one they all lost access to their GCs.

She vowed to be more progressive and I must say I am very impressed by her.

[ithaka]

Was this issue not discussed before you got married?

I don't see what difference such a discussion would have made. The OP & her DH are in agreement they don't want their DD christened. You are hardly going to select your life partner on the basis of his parent's views that he doesn't agree with. Not a helpful idea really.

OP - YANBU. My DM was gutted I didn't get my first born christened as my sister had a child around the same time and she had her heart set on a joint christening. To be honest, it is all a load of mumbo jumbo to me and I may well have gone along with it to make my mum happy. However DH was set against so I stood my ground. As my mum is a bit of the 'obey the man' school of thought, she decided I couldn't possibly go against my big scary husband and backed down.

I hope your MIL settles down and doesn't cut of her nose to spite her face over this.

[YouTheCat]

If you were a Christian and your views were very important to you and your family were all a different religion and decided, against your wishes, to baptise/name your child into their faith, wouldn't that be horribly disrespectful to your views, Peeking?

I see no difference if someone is an atheist. It isn't that an atheist doesn't care about religion. It is that they have chosen not to believe in god which is their belief and it is for no one else to diminish that and try to impose their views.

It really bugs me when people don't consider the views of those of us who don't believe in god.

[Caitlin17]

Peekingduck yes it would matter. This is not mother in law's decision.

[gotthemoononastick]

Was this issue not discussed before you got married?I ask once again why people think they can ignore cultural and religious values and hope things will work out.The huge elephant in the room is the Manse..their life.

These people probably fear what they see as the spiritual vacuum their grandchildren will grow up in.

She is very wrong to take things into her own hands,though.Your husband's call to sort it,not yours I am afraid .

[Peekingduck]

If you don't believe anyway, would it matter if they got your daughter "christned"? Just looking at it from another viewpoint, you aren't going to have anything to do with a christening. It would be really underhand if MIL went and did some tiny ceremony of her own, but it would be meaningless. You would carry on bringing your daughter up as you've always planned to.

[GhoulWithADragonTattoo]

YANBU at all. I wouldn't leave your DD unattended with PIL to be honest. I can imagine MIL getting FIL to Christen her in your absence.

[tb]

another transsubstantiation is completely against the articles of religion in the back of the book of common prayer. So it's not in the CofE, although I couldn't speak for the lot high up the candle with benediction, and 'bells and smell' type of services.

[TheListingAttic]

Deep breath. Stay calm. If she EVER dares bring it up again:
"You've already had our last word on the matter."
"You've already had our last word on the matter."
"You've already had our last word on the matter."

Lather, rinse, repeat, repeat, repeat.

YAsoooooooooooooooooooooooooNBU.

[bodygoingsouth]

I think we have all agreed that your mil is acting as nutty as squirrel poo but people do take their religious beliefs very seriously you know, it's not just Muslims but Christians too. I am not in the least religious and haven't had my 4 christened probably because I spent hours of boring time in church as a child.

so that said of course you have to he firm on this and any other aspect of parenting you feel strongly. dd is your child not hers.

but as I said in previous post to break contact here would he utterly ott.

your dds relationship with your husbands mother, her grandmother is important too. your dh presumably loves his mother and needs to set the stall out and you can all move on.

and if she, at some point, sticks her head under a tap to baptise her and tells you what she's done then fine just laugh. you think it's twaddle anyway.

[anothernumberone]

Generally as an Anglican the only church you can't take Communion in is the Catholic church

You learn something new every day I thought catholics and anglicans were in full communion as both believed in transubstantiation I totally had it backwards.

OP YADDDDDDDNBU however I totally agree with Pictish since your FIL has clearly stated that the baptism will not happen without your agreement I think it would be foolhardy to cut ties not that you have suggested you will. She is being outrageous. I have heard of people going behind parents backs and baptising children which is beyond outrageous

[Amber76]

I have an Aunt who I think is absolutely amazing - I really love and respect her. She is Catholic. I'm not religious at all.

I just couldn't believe it when she told me that it upset her hugely that her eldest gc wasn't to be baptised...so much so that she ran the childs head under a tap in the bathroom upstairs and said whatever you say in those situations!!!

This is a woman who is very highly educated, very emotionally intelligent, etc. - I didn't discuss it with her but I would sort of put it down to brainwashing when she was young. She said she couldn't sleep with anxiety at the time.

Op - you are not unreasonable at all, I would be furious if I was you.

[LittleBabyPigsus]

Off topic slightly but:

youarewinning the CoE is in full communion with the Lutheran church so you can in fact take Communion there. I am surprised you have been told otherwise. Generally as an Anglican the only church you can't take Communion in is the Catholic church, most Protestant churches would happily let you take Communion.

[tobiasfunke]

I must be a bit of a sap but we had DS christened by an old friend who is a vicar because both my mother and PIL really wanted it. We didn't have it in a church so it wasn't that religious. I was happy to go along with it as it was pretty meaningless to us but it made them happy. My mother wanted it more than I didn't.
However if they had tried to force us I would've dug my heels in and said no. The stupid thing is your MIL has put you in a position where you can't change your mind without losing face. Don't discuss it- let your DH do it.