AIBU to be so cross with PIL over DD

[iamsoannoyed]

Well, I don't think I am being unreasonable to be annoyed but I would also like some perspective, as I am getting more and more annoyed over this. Very long, so apologies.

My DHs parents are very religious (FIL is a vicar). DH is not, although obviously was brought up in a religious household. He has not attended church regularly since he left home to go to university. In fact, I think the last time he went was when we stayed with them for christmas a few years ago. I am definitely not religious.

DH and I got married in a civil ceremony, although FIL gave a blessing afterwards as it meant a lot to him (and DH to have his dad do it)- which was nice. They were a little bit upset we chose not to have a religious ceremony, but it would have felt utterly hypocritical saying religious vows in church when I don't believe in any of it.

However, now PIL (well mostly MIL) are kicking up a fuss because we aren't getting our DD (their first GC) christened. DH and I spoke about it before she was born, and he isn't really bothered either way and I am against the whole idea, so we decided against it.

We hadn't discussed this with anyone else, as it really hadn't occurred to us that we would have to justify this decision.

Anyway, MIL told me a few days ago that they had "spoken to" BIL/SIL and they would be delighted to be god-parents and she was thinking the christening could be in the next few weeks- there were 2 free spaces at FIL church and which did we want? I was because I can't believe she thought it was up to her/them to decide our DD is getting christened, never mind organising said event without being asked to. Also, she has no business deciding who would be godparents, far less asking BIL and SIL to do it on our behalf.

I was pissed off, but I thought that she (mostly) meant well, was probably just a bit over excited and got ahead of herself (as she did after DD was born). I think she assumed that because religion is so important to her and because DH was christened, we would have DD christened too.

I tried to explain that DH and I had discussed it and decided against it. MIL got very upset and said it was selfish to deny our DD a welcoming to the community of the church, how could we exclude them from this etc etc. I told her it was really none of her business and to keep her opinions to herself. I thought that would be the end of it and decided to just ignore the stupidity of what MIL had done, and move on.

But no, we have had SIL (DH's sister) and BIL (DH's brother) on the phone, saying it is very selfish to deny PIL this, as it is really important to them. They are also hurt that godparent request has been revoked (as there is to be no christening).

I explained MIL had organised this and asked them without our knowledge or consent, but I was sorry they were upset re the godparent aspect. I also said that as DH is not religious and I am not religious. Why on earth would I want to stand up in church and pledge to bring my daughter according to the christian faith, when clearly this will not be the case? They still thought it was very unfair on MIL, I left it "we'll just have to agree to disagree".

Anyway, she's been on the phone to DH pleading to him to change his mind. He has said a firm "no", but she has been crying and making him feel terrible. We came up with a compromise- we have heard of other parents who have had civil naming ceremonies and thought that could give everyone the chance to welcome DD in a formal way, and FIL could do a blessing similar to that he did at our wedding so he could be involved.

FIL seemed happy with this, and was really touched to be asked. MIL, however, is still not happy as we are not going to be having a "proper christening" and won't be bring her DGD up in a religious way.

I am getting increasingly angry about this. The final straw was today, when she suggested they do the christening anyway but I "wouldn't have to be there" if I didn't like it.

I am now furious. I admit I lost my temper at the last conversation and told MIL to go take a running jump- there was no way that was happening, and I expected this to be the last conversation we have on the matter and until she could apologise she was to leave me alone and then hung up the phone.

MIL phoned DH, who pointed out she had gone a bit far- not that she was very apologetic to him and still insisted we were being unfair.

AIBU to demand an apology? And to want to minimise contact with MIL until she can accept the way we are choosing to bring up DD- I don't want MIL to ram religion down her throat against our wishes, and feel if she can't respect our wishes then she can only have supervised contact (not such a problem now, as DD is very small).

By the way, FIL has been very reasonable and given he's the vicar, I thought he'd be more upset than MIL.

[Nanny0gg]

Out of interest, how old is your MiL?

[Jux]

Interestingly, I have found that it is the people wo are truly committed to their religion who are more tolerant in these circumstances. I suspect they have more understanding of it. We had a similar situation with dd. my mum was very very devout Catholic. MIL had her two children baptised into CofE but they were never taken to church regularly, and MIL herself never went.

When we said dd wouldn't be baptised, mum said she ought it would be very hypocritical of us to do so. MIL got terribly upset and nagged and nagged and nagged; apparently, if we didn't have dd christened then she wouldn't have the choice (wtf?). As it happens, dd is now 14 and is a Wiccan so she has had the choice and has chosen, and I don't think being baptised would have helped her much.

We have a friend though, whose wife's family were rabidly religious and they organised a christening without telling him. He was furious when he found out - but it had happened by then. They are no longer married.

[Caitlin17]

Erica what a silly thing to say. Christenings should be a big deal. If it is to have any meaning at all then it should be a "big deal" for families who want it. Similarly it really is quite a "big deal" for atheist parents to have their children baptised behind their backs. You're belittling both sides beliefs.

I think you're confusing it with a party.

[DoJo]

Ericaequites I don't get the impression that it is the actual christening service that is an issue for the OP (although clearly it's not something that they want or would choose for their daughter), so much as the breathtaking cheek of organising an event and selecting the participant without so much as mentioning it to the parents of the child. This speaks volumes about how little the MIL really cares about what her son and daughter in law want, and how a christening is more important to her than maintaining healthy boundaries and knowing when she is being overbearing!

[CaptainSparklePants]

Could you explain that your DD's religion isn't your choice, or your DH's, or your MIL's, or anyone's but your DD's? And as she is not yet old enough to choose the religion she wants to be then you will have to wait until she is old enough and knowledgable to do so, so Christianing her would be completely unfair on her and would go against her right to choose.

[3bunnies]

I imagine this won't be the end of it. Our dc are baptized and we go to Mass - but it isn't good enough for FIL who when he can tells the dc (out of our earshot) how sad he is that they don't go to an RC school. Our children love their school, dh hated his awful RC one. We have had to read the riot act to him on more than one occasion and equip the dc with responses (this started when dd1 was in reception), he would also try to quiz them on the phone about how often they go to church. They are never left alone in the house but he might find them alone in a room for one of his chats.

She might just want to do it for show or she might start trying to influence school choice etc.

[Adeleh]

YANBU. She is unbelievably out of line, and I say this as one who trots merrily off to church on a Sunday. My children are not baptised. I would quite have liked to have had them baptised, but DH uncomfortable other it, and we agreed that they could make their own choices. DS1 is probably going to get baptised and confirmed this year, and what's nice is that he can choose his own godparents (though have pointed out that his best friend is not a contender . . . ) Your MIL has absolutely no right to behave like this and should be down on her knees praying for forgiveness . . .

[wouldbemedic]

I don't think you'll hear the last of this sort of issue. The problem isn't the christening, really. It's the MIL and her attitude. I would expect her to be 'overstepping' on any issue where she thinks she knows best. Ground rules:

1. No ringing up DH to whinge after you have said no. If she wants to talk to you both at once, give her that option. But if she approaches you and you say no, that's it. DH pleasantly and firmly tells her he doesn't want to engage and she's placing him in a position that could cause stress on the marriage.

2.Obviously, respecting that it's your responsibility alone to bring up your own children. That means you'll be making all decisions regarding your child's emotional, physical, spiritual and social development. Full stop.

1. Unless she is prepared to support you in all of the above, she can only have supervised contact. Because it's unbelievably stressful and undermining to a child's sense of security when family doesn't support each other.
2. This isn't a negotiation. If she's not prepared to go along with this, there's nothing you can do. The offer is there but it won't be changed.
3. You're sorry she's been hurt and words have been said in anger on both sides. You'd like to put the past behind and start again, supporting each other in family roles out of shared love for DD.

Vicars wives are in charge of things a lot, managing people and expected to know best. Makes some of 'em obnoxious (I should know).

[Viviennemary]

You have to do what you think is right for your child. But if your DH's parents are committed Christians which they are then they will be very upset indeed that their grandchild isn't being christened.

[iamsoannoyed]

I suggested that DH talk to FIL, which he has done. FIL is actually quite embarrassed, and has been at pains to emphasise that there is no way he would hold a christening without our permission- or indeed without me present as he feels this would be very wrong. He is more than pleased at the idea of the civil ceremony with a short blessing (not baptism etc, just a short prayer type thing).

He says he will talk to MIL but says she had her heart set on a proper christening and was looking forward to encouraging DD to "worship god and lead a christian life" (her words).

I should also point out we live around a 1.5 hour drive from PIL, so it's not like MIL could be taking her to church every Sunday etc to "make up" for our "lack of faith".

DH also spoke to MIL, who is apparently too upset to discuss the matter, and will certainly not be apologising to me as I was rude to her first (!) and have refused to consider her point of view. Oh well, lets hope FIL has more luck trying to make her see she's being really ridiculous now.

I have calmed down a little, but am still upset that she thinks our wishes regarding DD are so insignificant when compared to her own and that she actually thinks her opinion carries equal weight with ours. I think a stand needs to be made on this issue, or I suspect it will never end.

I am sad about this too- I thought much more of her than this. I can also see how surprised DH is at her behaviour, and also how upset he is at her attitude towards both him and us as a couple. I am genuinely baffled at how a seemingly normal, perfectly nice and pleasant woman (if a bit nosey) has turned into this mad-woman.

[iamsoannoyed]

nanny ogg, she is in her early 60's. Not sure why that matters?

[Nanny0gg]

Just curious. Not using it to condone her appalling behaviour.

But as she seemed to be exhibiting some really extreme behaviour, I did wonder if she was elderly with possible problems.

Clearly not.

[Amy106]

OP, I am really sorry this is happening to you because it is just so unfair. You and dh make decisions for your dd, not your MIL. You are not unreasonable to be cross. Not at all. I am crossed for you! Good luck and best wishes.

[DonkeysDontRideBicycles]

FIL is the vicar not MIL and he sounds perfectly reasonable about the whole issue. It is a pity that MIL has overstepped the mark and is causing ructions. Even if you change your mind she is not the person who gets to select godparents. As it is maybe DD will decide for herself later.

I don't think MIL or BIL or SIL should make demands or pressure DH. If they wish to boycott a civil naming ceremony that is up to them.

[LittleBabyPigsus]

I am religious and they are being horrible and totally unreasonable. You and DH are the parents, not them, it's none of their business. YANBU at all!

[HicDraconis]

I am normally the first person on the MiL side in these threads (have 2 sons and am likely to be one myself one day!) ... However your MiL is frankly barking.

She can have her heart set on what she likes, your DD is your child and your responsibility and it's up to you and your DH to decide what if any religious upbringing she gets. Bugger all to do with granny.

Given her hysteria over this (and calling your husband in tears to try and get him on board - divide & conquer, glad it didn't work! - is hysterical imho) I would be leaving contact entirely to your DH.

I like the non confrontational "I'm sorry this upsets you and words have been said on both sides, let's draw a line and move on" but I think before you even get to that stage, she needs to realise how unhinged she is coming over as being. She then needs to apologise to you, accept that your daughter is being brought up according to your ideas / practices / wishes etc and state that she is happy to accept and follow your lead with regard to interaction with her GD. Otherwise I'm not sure I'd be happy with any contact. Clearly drawn boundaries needed now and you'll probably (after a few rough weeks of establishing them) all get along much better.

Ultimately if she persists in acting like a petulant toddler who hasn't got her own way, the only person losing out is her.

[HicDraconis]

I mean, take religion out of it. Suppose you were strict vegetarians, and granny didn't approve so she made arrangements to feed your DD ham sandwiches, or took her for chicken nuggets? There is no way that could be condoned as being acceptable. Same principle - she is way out of line.

[AlpacaPicnic]

I cannot understand people who 'have christenings' when they have no intention of attending church or committing to that faith - it just seems so hypocritical.
One of my work colleagues was complaining that they were having terrible trouble finding a church to christen her granddaughter in as 'they all want some sort of commitment to attend church regularly, she [work colleagues daughter] can't be bothered with all that'
Well then, why have a bloody christening? Oh... For the presents!
In the end, they found a church near a beach that was willing to do it, and planned a big family barbecue on the beach afterwards I totally did not laugh at the irony of the thunderstorm that happened that day forcing them to cancel their plans

[ElenorRigby]

DSD's maternal PIL had DSD christened not only without DP's permission but without his knowledge, no discussion, no nothing.

DSD one day just said her granddad, who is also a vicar, had christened her while she was with her mother, they all had a nice party together. Nice huh

OP YANBU be careful.

[Booboostoo]

Your MIL sounds very controlling and it seems like, in her mind, she was going to be in charge of your DD's religious education - not just the christening but the comments about leading a religious life. This is very inappropriate, has little to do with religion itself (especially as FIL is not as bothered), and probably has more to do with her desire to control your DD's life. I think you and your DH need to confront this head on, as you are doing, stand firm and set boundaries now. If you let her get away with this now I suspect you will have a lot more problems later.

[TamerB]

I would get DH to have a chat with his father alone. As a vicar he can't expect parents to lie in church and the ceremony is very specific as in 'I believe in God' and you are promising to bring up the child as a Christian, which you are not going to do. FIL can then deal with MIL. I wouldn't even do the naming ceremony until she accepts your position.

[Rabbitcar]

I can't believe she thinks this is Christian behaviour. She seems to have forgotten what being a good person is all about. YADNBU.

[MothershipG]

Your MIL is totally out of order, good job all the sane people around you both realise that and are supporting you!

My DPs are practicing RC and DH and I are practicing atheists but I said to my Mum that it wouldn't bother me if they got my DC christened as long as I wasn't expected to stand up in church and tell a bare-faced lie. They had a little word with their Priest who told them that they couldn't get DC baptised under those circumstances. To be honest they weren't that bothered, more curious about the rules I think.

Had I realised then how limited my DC's educational choices would be because of my principles it makes me wish I'd gone down the path of hypocrisy!