To send my children to Catholic school when we're not?

[JohnCusacksWife]

We are not religious and our DDs currently go to the local non-denominational primary school. Our village is in the catchment area for 2 secondary schools - a not very good non-denominational school in the neighbouring local authority and a very good RC school in our own local authority area. There is also a good non-denominational school in our area but we're not in the catchment for that and would have to make a placing request, which would probably be granted, but that would mean we'd have to make our own travel arrangements.

In the next year we'll have to decide which school our girls will go to and I'm leaning towards the RC school although they would obv not participate in any masses etc. Would IBU to send my girls to a school which happens to be RC just because its the best when (a) we don't believe and (b) I have a general problem with educating different religions separately?

Just to be clear we wouldn't be bending any rules if we chose that school....as it's in our catchment area it's technically open to all children in the area.

I will say that many things those nuns taught me about my body and my worth as a human stood me in very good stead in my life.

Bratingham, great point, well made!

Did it occur to you that the school may be so good because of it's Catholic ethos. It seems hypocritical to want to send your children to this good school yet on the other hand to distance yourself from the school "family"

You need to double check their entry criteria regardless of whether you are in catchment or not. My children are at rc school and it goes something like this: top of list - looked after children or children with SEN
Next are baptised Catholics with siblings at school, next baptised Catholics, next non baptised sibs, next other faith members, next children with no faith. The catchment only comes into play if they are looking at distance due to final place being spilt by 2 or more kids in same situation and then the nearest one gets the place.

Fortunately it was never a dilemma we had to consider, son went to a non denominational private school.I would have been very annoyed indeed if we'd been in the position of the state catchment school was a religious school which I could not in good conscience have sent him to (even if he'd have been accepted which presumably doubtful) but for which my taxes were paying.

It's far less of an issue in Scotland. There is I think an RC state primary in Edinburgh , I think but I'm not aware of any RC state secondaries. It might be different in Glasgow and the west.

So are you hoping that the more non-RC pupils will dilute Catholic teachings?

I went to a RC high school. Not RC. You can't opt out of what you don't want to participate in i.e. Mass, frankly shocking Religious Education etc. IMO it's a very damaging belief system and I would rather my DC go to a school with fewer box ticks than be brainwashed for years.

I would just like to point out that Religion in faith schools is there because we, as parents, want our children to be educated well and in our faith. The faith schools are not completely state funded as the associated churches put money into the running of it! The whole ethos at a faith school is very different to that of a non denominational one.

OP, the children are not bombarded with religion all day long but the level of RE will not be changed because there are a number of non RC children at the school. If you can get a place then grab it with both hands, allow your child to enjoy it without getting into things you don't agree with, you don't have to set out to make them different. They will not be brainwashed, many RC children have no interest whatsoever but just go through the motions, I think true faith comes much later for most (a bit of a bugger when you find your faith again only to find they have changed the whole mass and you don't know the correct words to the old prayers). It isn't like it used to be when I was at school, nowhere near as heavy, and they do study other faiths now.

I genuinely think the main difference is that they teach the children to be kind to one another (from primary age) and set standards of behaviour that is and is not acceptable. With regard to teachings on abortion etc, I had all that with the photos (very new at that time) etc, it has not affected my belief in any way and I do remember it caused a huge fuss in the lesson because some were very open about their own beliefs around that subject. Most of us just learned to keep our mouths shut and quietly believe what we wanted to believe.

Yanbu. I work in one. The education is amazing and I have conpletely changed my mind.

Also the catholic students are very ipen minded about gay marriage, euthanasia, abortion etc so no sign of brainwashing. Mass is lovely...and im not Catholic by any stretch of the imagination.

I attended a Catholic school but am not Catholic. So long as your DCs are prepared to participate it shouldn't be a problem.

DS went to a Catholic Primary from Years3 - 5. I didn't like the local primary (he had attended the infants there) so decided to trey and get him into the catholic primary as they achieved better educational results - and made provision for the more gifted, not just the children requiring extra help.

We are not Catholic. Ds is a baptised C of E - which did help with the application though.

He really enjoyed the school - and it worked out well. One thing I remember is that the teachers seemed to be adaptable to each DC's needs. Oh, and that school dinner wasn't slopped onto one of those trays. They had a plate of main course. Then went up for pudding. Much more civilised.

I did then move his schools again at the end of Y5, as we moved to a different town, and I wanted him to get to know local DC, in anticipation of high school.

He is now 16 - and when asked about his school/s says he enjoyed his time at St P's very much.

Edinburgh has 14 RC primary schools and 3 RC High Schools, Caitlin17.

I'm an a non-Catholic who attended a Catholic school for sixth form (due entirely to it's academic reputation) and this is my major worry:

Leaving aside the rights/wrongs/beliefs/non beliefs the biggest thing about the Catholics is that they really go in for all that Catholicism. I don't mean that to sound flippant- I was surprised by it. To a certain degree I think I assumed it would be a kind of tokenism.... Normal school with some rosary beads kind of thing. But culturally it was a million miles from how I'd been brought up (agnostic/C of E parents with a bit of All Things Bright and Beautiful and carols at Christmas).

That's what would bother me for my own kids and why I wouldn't send them to an RC school no matter how good the results. I can see that it would be tempting and can see too that the school I attended was academically excellent... However I'm not a Catholic and therefore sending my children to a Catholic school wouldn't- to my mind- be right.

I went to a Catholic school (as a Catholic) and there were a few kids who were CofE but they still had to do mass and the majority of school life. The only things that they were 'left out' of were sacrament things: first confession, first communion, and confirmation.

Some of the non Catholic kids actually asked their parents if they could convert because they were feeling left out. Maybe that would be less of an issue at a school with a larger proportion of non Catholics.

I won't be sending my children to a Catholic school, or even a CofE (which DH is). Catholicism is a major part of school life.

Caitlin17 There are lots of RC schools in Scotland! I'm Central Belt and the best secondary school in our town is RC. I was raised RC but am not terribly keen on the religion. We did, however, give serious thought to having our DC baptised and raised RC. The local secondary school is heavily oversubscribed so you need to either get in at the primary school stage- and many Muslims here do this - or raise your DC Catholic to gain entry at high school.

I eventually decided I couldn't send my DC to a school where I felt fairly strongly against the religion so I do understand your conflict. I don't think you'd be entirely unreasonable to send your DC to a RC school but I do think you need to speak to lots of local parents first to find out how strong the religious element is and then decide if you are comfortable with that.

I'm never quite sure how a school can be described as a "good" school if it's presenting outright lies as truth. The Eve tempting Adam example that a poster gave above is a case in point. Schools should be about teaching children to think for themselves, not lying to them. If the school did regular lessons in astrology, you probably wouldn't send them there, would you?

I'd find out all you can about the ethos first, especially given that your children are girls. I know that most Catholic schools these days are modern and inclusive, but there are still a few that regard women and girls as inferior, and it will come across to your children in subtle ways.

Thanks re Edinburgh. We didn't look into as son was at one of the Merchant schools from P1. I personally think it's outrageous and unacceptable for tax payers to have to fund schools their own children can't attend.

You may want to consider how impressionable your DDs are and if you are happy with them turning out Catholic.

I, for example, would switch off or at least remain skeptical during religious education. I would be interested in a theory point of view, but detached. My younger sister would have taken it all in and believed it and converted - she was close after a two-week Mormon summer camp and very distressed after a one-week Christian summer camp where they told us we were going to hell if we didn't believe! If you're happy with that possible outcome, go for it.

YABU I'm afraid just to chose a RC school because you think it offers a better standard of education than a non-RC school. We moved house because of DH's job and were in the catchment area for the local RC school. As a family of practicing RCs our DS couldn't got the local RC school because there were too many non-RC children taking up the places. I think it's not fair and actually hypocritical to send your children to a school of a certain specific faith unless you actually practice that religion. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's what I think. I hope you manage to find a good school for your DC that you are happy with.

Lily why is it unfair if the school is a state school? What is unfair is if there are 2 schools in the catchment , one religious and the other not. The religious family has the choice of both. The non religious is probably going to have to pick only the non religious one.

If you want to educate your children in your faith I suggest you do it at home in your own time or send them to a religious fee paying school. Why should the non religious pay via Council Tax for your special choice?

YANBU.

I hate it when people come on here and say what a hypocrite you are. How nice for them to have a choice of decent school that isn't religious.

We sent our DS to the local catholic school, I am an atheist and I did struggle with my decision but I live in a fairly deprived area and the local schools are shite and I wouldn't entertain them for my children. The catholic school is known for being a good school so it was a no brainer. I love it. Ok there is a lot of religious content but I just let that wash over me and concentrate on all the great things about it. Even when we move I won't be changing DS' school.

Oh and for all those who bleat on about us taking a place for a catholic child, you don't know anything. There is a list of priorities. Children who are baptised catholic are second priority on the list (second to children in care). Non religious children are seventh so no one is taking the place of a catholic child. If there are spaces available then a catholic school will take you.

Go for it OP and don't let others sway you on what you think is best for your children.

Lily: "I think it's not fair and actually hypocritical to send your children to a school of a certain specific faith unless you actually practice that religion."

For a start, you need to look up the meaning of the word "hypocritical" because you clearly don't know what it means.

Secondly, I don't think it's fair that my taxes fund schools from which my own child is excluded because of religion. Religious discrimination is outlawed in most other areas of life. So you probably need to look up the word "fair" too.

YANBU

I completely disagree with faith schools anyway, and feel every child should have the option of a good local school. We have applied for a RC school (and are fairly likely to get a place) as it is a good school and one of our nearest. Why not?

YANBU.

In my town, the high schools are bursting at the seams, my DD's school is over capacity and the wait in the dining hall consequently horrendous never mind the squeezing into too small class rooms. The council just cannot afford to build another secondary school.

Just before the economic melt down, a brand spanking new RC 'community campus' high school was built. It is no where near capacity, tons of room. So what are non RC families with high school age children meant to do?

Plus, if your child has SN, which include a physical disability, only the new school may be able to accommodate them, as it has sufficient space and is built to modern standards. My DD's school could not, realistically, accommodate anyone in a wheel chair.

So if your child is in a wheelchair, you really have no choice but the RC school, whatever your beliefs. That is so many shades of wrong - how could anyone defend that?

Religiously segregated schools are an anachronism that has no place in modern society.

I went to an RC convent from 5 to 18. In my class it was fairly equally divided between RC (which I am) and not RC (mainly they would have been C of E in those days - I am a proper old gimmer educated in the late 70s/80s).

I came out of school with no feeling that I was in any way inferior to a boy or man - quite the opposite - but it was an all-girls school, and I think this probably makes all the difference in any school really. We were encouraged as much to aim for science as for the arts and I genuinely never felt that because I was a girl I should go for one type of career over another.

As for Religion, there was a lot of it definitely. We even had retreats where priests would come in for a week at a time and give masses each day and hold special sessions with each of our classes. But that was actually quite fun and as we only had female teachers otherwise, was an interesting distraction for us. From recollection, non-RC pupils attended all these too, and the Masses, but just didn't take Communion.

Regardless of your religion or lack of it, R.E. O' level (I said I was old) was compulsory, and they made us do the dull syllabus where you had to learn the Gospels by rote rather than the interesting one about world religions I discovered when I read the paper. Again, that might have changed or may have been more down to the nuns' choice. I suspect a compulsory RE GCSE may still be a requirement though so, again, you might want to check that and whether there is some flexibility over syllabus.

Also, the abortion thing - I don't know if it is still common in RC schools but we had to sit through an incredibly grim film on the topic and we were put in no doubt at all that abortion was wrong. I am not aware that anyone was scarrred long term by the film or that it changed people's minds one way or the other really, but it is definitely something to bear in mind and find out what the policy is.

I don't think I would worry about your DDs being taught too many religious stories. They will be, of course, but they also live with you and in the real world and should get a balanced view overall. You don't get taught Creationism in Science classes in an RC school, for example, (or at least we didn't). I was completely unaware at school that some Christians still genuinely believe that the world was created 5000 years ago or whenever. I assumed everyone regarded the Bible, or at least the Old Testament, as part history, part stories passed down to explain things people didn't understand back then.

Sex education may be the biggest issue. I am not sure how that will be approached and you might want to check that with the school. We had none, apart from the bare science aspect, but that may have changed.