To wonder how people actually afford childcare

[roweeena]

So I should of thought of this before I got pregnant but I have a 3 month & 27 month old. Thinking of going back to work in Sept when they will be just shy of 1 & 3.

Contacted nursery under my work - 2 days a week for the both of them will cost £1020 per month!!! Dread to think how much full time would cost.

I was full time before and DS was in with a childminder but we have moved now and this nursery seemed so handy. Just going back 2 days a week now and going to have to also work one weekend day. Just can't afford to go back to work for more than that.

We have no family close by who can help out. Both myself & my husband are in quite reasonable jobs (in fact in my job people always assume I must be loaded - media reporting). Just wondering how other people actually afford childcare for two.

Ps I know DS1 will qualify for free 15hrs from the Jan but it doesn't seem to make that much difference as its only term time & 3 hrs a day (pretty useless for working mums)

[HaroldLloyd]

Moogs I've rung them and they told me to fill in a form and they might or might not agree it.

[Quenelle]

If you're not a lone parent it helps to look at this as yours and your DH's problem to solve, not just yours.

Firstly, the cost of childcare should come out of the household budget so look at what is left over from your combined salaries, not just your own. This makes no difference to its affordability but does help to justify you both working so one of you (and it's almost always the woman) won't conclude they have to step out of their career, perhaps permanently.

Secondly, can your DH make a flexible working arrangement with his employer? My husband's flexible working means he can be at home one day a week. In the early days this meant DS only had to go to the CM three days a week instead of four. DH also started and finished work earlier than me so between us we could drop DS off later and pick him up earlier.

[racmun]

I don't think private childcare nurseries should be subsidised by the Governemt per se. They are businesses making huge profits so the government would effectively be bank rolling the profits for the owners.

I believe that the state should provide childcare via not for profit organisations, that would take a massive chunk of the cost of nursery away. The employees managers etc would still be employed the only difference being that the profit element for the owners is removed.

Private nurseries could still run like private schools do for those who want to pay extra. There would need to be some sort of scheme for childminders so they don't miss out but surely that is the way forward.

[cleofatra]

I notice most people calculate their monthly childcare costs but has anyone compared the cost per hr vs what you earn phr? Would be interesting.

[FraidyCat]

janey interest rates were at 15% but MIRAS meant they were tax deductable, so effectively interest was free!

It's amazing how many people don't understand the difference between tax-free and free.

If I have it right, when interest rates were 15%, the basic rate of tax was 25% and MIRAS was allowed on £30,000 of borrowing, so the effect of MIRAS was to reduce mortgage costs by £3000025%15% = £1125 per year, or £93.75 per month.

Although, having said that, the base rate in the early 90's only went to 15% for a matter of days before being cut again, I don't think my mortgage ever went to that level. The best of my recollection, my payments on a £120K mortgage taken out in 1989 never went above £1400 a month. I'm taking the trouble to mention the figures so you can see how insignificant MIRAS was, relatively speaking.

[Dahlen]

I feel your pain. I don't know how I'd have managed had I not had some financial good fortune. I inherited some money shortly before TTC and also saved up some to allow me to pay about 70% of my childcare costs for the first 4 years.

Then I went and had twins.

At times during those first three years I was so broke I didn't eat. Childcare nearly broke me and I've worked out that by the time I no longer need it I will have spent more than £160,000 in today's money.

It gets a little easier when they qualify for free hours, and a lot easier once they're in school, but it still represents one of the largest expenses in my finances.

I'm afraid I don't have any great insight to offer about making it work for you, but I wanted to offer support for your situation. It's hard and not enough recognition is given to this fact.

According to government research, 4 out of 5 working mothers (which instantly makes it the woman's problem to sort out ) rely primarily on family to cover their childcare needs (usually the mother's mother). Now that we're all being encouraged to move away from family in the name of employment, and now that everyone will have to work until they're 120 before being eligible for a pension, I wonder how that's going to play out...

[Dahlen]

FWIW, I don't regret my choices, as now my childcare costs are less and my disposable income is higher, it was a sacrifice I feel was worth it.

[HelloBoys]

I'm not a mum but an architect friend of mine when had 2 and then 3 kids had nanny as option. they got French speaking ones as their DC are at French speaking state school.

you have to have big enough house but she thought it was ideal for her cost wise.

another friend of mine pays £800 PCM for nursery for her DD who'll be 4 in September (school time) but she moved back in with parents after her ex-DF was a tosser to her so they helped re childcare picking up DD after work etc.

[moogy1a]

Harold. If the legislation is the same as England they have no choice. When the little ones are having their nap I'll see if I can find the legislation and pm it to you

[HelloBoys]

oh the £800 PCM is for one child 5 days a week. East End London, maybe that's considered cheap?!

[Melonbreath]

I quit my job. I hated my job and I hate my in laws who were bullying me as they wanted to bring up dd for me.
Yes money is a struggle I won't lie, but I was paying more than I earned to go to work.
It wasn't a career it was a job.
I peddle things on ebay now and will find something part time once dd is old enough for her 15 hours a week.
I'm not sure about subsidising all nurseries. I would have been forced back into work i hated and coupled with getting 5 hours broken sleep a night I would have had a nervous breakdown.

[HaroldLloyd]

It's how they have interpreted it according to the lady at his okay school, but I think I'm on a hiding to nothing as there is a nursery unit within 2 miles I think.. Just about and they will say a place could have been got there. Just too disruptive.

I'll apply anyway and see what they come up with, but this will be more of an issue if he dosent get a place in sept, as at the moment it's only one term.

Annoying!

[janey68]

Ssd - to answer your question from a couple of pages back... Maintenance loans for Uni are means tested. If parents are on a low income their adult child gets to borrow more. We know many middle earners whose children can only borrow about half or less of what their rent costs. My point was that like childcare, it's a situation where the well off and lower income families will probably be ok- it's the middle who get squeezed

[dayshiftdoris]

I am a single parent and had no free childcare when my son was little (I still don't)

Childcare was the first nail in the coffin that my career is buried in - ok much bigger things were the ultimate demise but the constant balance between working hours, childcare and take home wage was the start ??

Another nail were managers like the poster above who said things like 'I don't believe you don't have anyone to have him'

I am a parent carer now - possibly no worse off financially as not paying for childcare but I miss working and I miss my job. I also wish my son could cope with me working but that's a different thread

[Manchesterhistorygirl]

Childcare costs are on of the reasons I decide to be a sahm, by the time we'd paid for nursery and after school club we would use up all of my wages and part of dh's. This was before we factored in petrol costs, lunch, tea, etc. I also worked a rolling roster as my employer refused to allow me to return on my fixed days contract citing business reasons. Dh wage was multiples of mine, so it would have made no sense for him to go pt to allow me to earn a crap pt wage, despite the excellent perks my job came with re: travel.

Whilst I was on mat leave and wondering how we could make it work, I was offered voluntary redundancy so took it.

[Laquitar]

OP i agree that childcare in uk is very expensive but yoU do have more options than other parents.

You have a well paid job and you have choosen to buy a 4 bed house in london. I ll be flamed for this but in my book a 4 bed house for a small family is a luxury.

You can hire a live in nanny since you have the space (not au pair, a nanny). This will be much cheaper -and easier too- than nursery. Other families cant do this due to space issue.

Also 100 pounds pw on food for 2 adults and 2under 5 who are at nursery is not exactly 'frugal'.
I ' m not having a go at you btw.

[Laquitar]

OP i agree that childcare in uk is very expensive but yoU do have more options than other parents.

You have a well paid job and you have choosen to buy a 4 bed house in london. I ll be flamed for this but in my book a 4 bed house for a small family is a luxury.

You can hire a live in nanny since you have the space (not au pair, a nanny). This will be much cheaper -and easier too- than nursery. Other families cant do this due to space issue.

Also 100 pounds pw on food for 2 adults and 2under 5 who are at nursery is not exactly 'frugal'.
I ' m not having a go at you btw.

[AnnieLobeseder]

Melonbreath - you don't think childcare should be subsided because it would't have suited you personally?

[HappySeven]

Thanks, fidget, you may be right. It was just the OP gave the impression she would bring home more than she paid out and that's what I didn't get. Maybe she does get tax credits but as a GP I doubt it.

It's definitely not easy though. I do work 3 days which I find a good balance for me and my family. The childcare costs are obviously not good but it is getting easier and I see it as a way to keep my foot in the door of my career.

I don't think I could have returned to my job if I'd stopped entirely and I know someone who is really struggling to get back in the workplace after 10 years at home. She's not in my line of work but she's now divorced and could do with bringing in some money and not relying on her ex for maintenance.

[Blondeshavemorefun]

i have always said that those who work and have childcare costs should have the cost taken out of their gross salary and then taxed

maybe the vouchers need to go up from £243 a month pp

Im a nanny and yes get well paid, tho i feel i do earn my money, but for a nanny earning £12/13 gross an hour,on 11hr ish day works out about £7k a day childcare costs over the year

with 2 children a nanny is the cheaper option, esp when have 2 little ones, im at the top range of salary (22year exp im old lol ) but younger nannies and nwoc can bring down costs to maybe £5/6k a day

yes outgoings like bills/mortgage are the same whether you work or not, so some have to think they may take home £20+ a week after paying childcare, but if they didnt work then as one poster pointed out they would still have the same bills

basically as long as your childcare is slightly less then what you earn, then some will carry on working knowing in 2/3/5yrs time they still have a career and their leftover income will be higher

[drspouse]

We use a CM one day a week and nursery 3 days currently. CM is actually more expensive per day because

a) she works longer hours (we chose her for her flexibility to work longer hours and a few extra days occasionally, and she's near home not near my work so DS is with her longer than he is in nursery)

b) she would charge slightly less per hour if we had a full or nearly full-time place.

c) as it's a workplace nursery I can pay the whole cost before NI, and we could do that however many days we had. I do get childcare vouchers on top of this, and so does DH, and we use those to pay the CM, but we couldn't get the whole cost of a 4 or 5 day a week CM through that, I don't think, not even between the 2 of us.

My workplace nursery is lovely and stimulating and he adores it but their flexibility and hours are a pile of pants.

[bigkidsdidit]

Blondes I would love a nanny, I have two but pay £4ph to my cm. how can it be cheaper to get a nanny?

[Blondeshavemorefun]

bigkid - its generally cheaper if have 2 children, esp 2 small ones, but obv area depends, my area a cm is £6/7.50ph per child so if have two then £15ph and also depends on age/exp of nanny and what they earn

if you did have a nanny say just over nmw if first job/young then would be £6.50/7 gross and would be less even with employers ni etc

wow at £4ph, keep her

[drspouse]

I don't think a nanny would be cheaper than nursery for us if we had a 2nd - partly because of paying for nursery through my pay packet before NI.

Our CM charges more than bigkid's though but part of the reason we picked this CM is that she will do school runs when DS is older, so if/when we have a 2nd that would be very helpful with one at the CM and one at school.

[bigkidsdidit]

That's each obv, that's standard here but I've seen nannies ask for 10ph do couldn't work it out. Maybe people negotiate price with them. Thanks anyway :)