To wonder how people actually afford childcare

[roweeena]

So I should of thought of this before I got pregnant but I have a 3 month & 27 month old. Thinking of going back to work in Sept when they will be just shy of 1 & 3.

Contacted nursery under my work - 2 days a week for the both of them will cost £1020 per month!!! Dread to think how much full time would cost.

I was full time before and DS was in with a childminder but we have moved now and this nursery seemed so handy. Just going back 2 days a week now and going to have to also work one weekend day. Just can't afford to go back to work for more than that.

We have no family close by who can help out. Both myself & my husband are in quite reasonable jobs (in fact in my job people always assume I must be loaded - media reporting). Just wondering how other people actually afford childcare for two.

Ps I know DS1 will qualify for free 15hrs from the Jan but it doesn't seem to make that much difference as its only term time & 3 hrs a day (pretty useless for working mums)

[rainydarkskies]

A full time nursery place here would cost around £1000.

I could afford that on my salary but like roweena would struggle to meet my other outgoings. I can understand that.

However, were I to stop working the other outgoings would not disappear - that is the part I'm afraid I don't understand. The child is here and needs caring for - whether you do it staying at home full time and lose an income, or go out to work and have a hefty deduction in childcare - either way the net result is the same: money is lost.

[bbcessex]

Nursery is £65+ per child per day here (SE). That is average.
Childminders range between £5 - £7.50 per hour.

[roweeena]

Commander maybe your right but I'm not sure where I am overspending. we live in London where to rent a one bed flat it is difficult to find somewhere for less than £1000 per month so our mortgage (although not over stretching ourselves when we got it) is a significant part of our outgoings now but it isn't massively more than the amount I just quoted and that's for a 4 bed. We have one car (a little Ka) which is quite economica and far to small for a family of four but we can't afford to upgradel. Food bills about £100 a week with cleanjng products etc. i meal plan. i do like to go on one holiday a year though - that will def have to go when the two of them are in childcare.

My DH doesn't get paid as much as me - maybe he should look at going PT but its not really a job that is suited to PT work in the same way a GP can.

We will just have to tighten our belts

[StealthPolarBear]

if you are the higher earner why is it you that needs to give up work?
Surely it's your DH?

[bbcessex]

roweena - I really feel for you.

Good childcare is expensive and it eats in to your earning.
I am pretty fed up with the 'well, if you can't afford it, stay at home, get a different job etc. etc.'.

2 things -

1 - like rainy says - the other outgoings don't go away if you pack in your job, so you're swapping one problem for another

2 - we need quality people in good quality roles - if you're talented and skilled, you should be supported in adding value to the economy.

[drspouse]

bbcessex Thank you - just what I was thinking.

[roweeena]

Anyway after 2hrs of constant feeding DS2 is asleep so probably checking out of the thread now whilst starting to be mentally more frugal!

[janey68]

I realise this is too late for you OP, but surely this is the kind of thing you factor in when thinking about age gaps between children? We thought long and hard about age gaps to reduce the time we paid childcare. As an 'oldie' with teenage kids, I'd have chewed my arm off for the year long maternity leave plus free nursery education hours at age 3 because it seriously cuts down the period of time when you're paying full childcare. When I had my kids it was 12 weeks off and then full fees until the day they started school- and as we buggered up timings with dd and had a September baby, that was almost 5 long years of paying full fees. I know people will say childcare is proportionally more expensive these days (though it wasnt cheap back then) but we had mortgages at 15% so overall things must have been at least as bad

Anyway... That's too late for you OP, as you've had your children with a fairly close gap. However all is not lost... You could consider taking out a loan to cover the expensive time, because when you factor in your pension it's probably worth your while staying in the workplace. It's a bit unclear whether you're staying in job or getting a new job? Have you handed in your notice from a previous job?

[Mumoftwoyoungkids]

janey Am surprised you didn't have the 15 free hours from 3? My mum got that with me and my brother.

(Although it may not have been flexible like it is now.)

[CPtart]

I too, worked for no financial gain for two years when my DS were both in nursery p/t. In some ways it was soul destroying to write that £1200 cheque every month but working preserved my pension, my professional competences and my sanity!

[msvenus]

I use a child minder & my bill is £1110 for my 2 dc for 4 days a week. Much more affordable than a nursery (£900 per dc so £1800 per dc) & they get lots of individual attention because there is just one other child there. A real homely environment with trips to play groups, farms etc. You might want to consider hiring a cm instead of a nursery.

[bbcessex]

All childcare costs should come out of gross salary, pre-tax.

I pay approx. £1,000 in childcare per month on average - I have to earn £1,400 to pay that.

[bbcessex]

janey68 - what handy suggestions do you have for the posters who had twins? Silly them, not considering planning more efficiently

And you may have had mortgages at 15%, but if I recall, deposits for houses were not 20% plus.. nor were house prices the equivalent of today...

[TunipTheUnconquerable]

Yeah OP, it's a bugger.
With 2 kids I was basically working for the pension, but I had 3 so I would have had to pay a lot to go to work. If my job had been secure it would have made sense, but it wasn't so it wasn't worth the pain.

You do seem to have options though: 1. move to a cheaper area 2. dp be SAHP instead of you, since he's the lower earner 3. use a CM which is cheaper than a nursery. It's lucky you are in a profession in which it is feasible to work part-time.
Good luck. There should be more tax rebates for childcare. After all, if you can't afford to work, not only does the govt lose your tax, they also lose the tax of the people who you would otherwise have been paying to look after your kids. Can't make economic sense.

[fidgetsnowfly]

revengeofkarma

It's a long haul having kids and unless you want to not give them the best you can, being a SAHM isn't going to be a viable option for anyone short of the top wage whackers.

Doesn't that depend whether you think the "very best" equates to material things? Definitely not top wage whackers here, but resent the implication that my children aren't getting the best. For my family, sending them to breakfast club, school, and after school club, in order to buy holidays and goods, wouldn't be "best".

[janey68]

Well, funny you should say that, because we have twins in our family bbcessex, and we actually took out twins insurance with dc2 because we knew we'd be financially scuppered if it turned out to be two babies as well as dc1!! Having said that, although a lump sum would have helped tide us over, it wouldn't have made much of a dent in the childcare bill for twins...

Obviously there are acts of god, and no one can foresee something like twins. I was just making the point that most is us working parents do consider things like age gaps, and it seems a bit odd that the OP who is clearly an intelligent professional woman, seems not to have thought through the financial implications of having two children close together. If she returned to work after having her first child, surely she realised the costs would double with number 2? Unless she finds a cm who may offer a sibling discount, or tries the nanny option.

[rainydarkskies]

what handy suggestions do you have for the posters who had twins? Silly them, not considering planning more efficiently

But since the OP did not have twins I do think it was a fair point.

As I said, children will cost - either in terms of paying someone else to look after them, or at the cost of your/your partner's salary if you stay at home to care for them.

They can't be left alone, therefore someone needs to care for them and this care will cost money - I honestly can't understand why as a concept this is unreasonable.

[HappySeven]

Sorry, I disappeared for a while. I still don't get it: if you make a (small) profit working part-time you should surely still make a profit working full-time?

[bbcessex]

My interpretation of the OP was that the OP moved after having DC1, and is scuppered because costs in the new area/nursery are disproportionately higher than previous, not because she hadn't factored in having to pay childcare for DC2.

I may have misunderstood though..

Either way. Childcare IS hugely expensive; there are so many "high salary" bashers out there, but it's relative; we need good people in employment and therefore, there should be some incentive for people like the OP to continue to work.

[missmapp]

It is horrendous. My two are both at school now, so only pay for before and after school care- it still works out as £635 a month ( for full time) and that is only term time.

It is much better than when they were both at nursery ( shudders at memory) but it it depressing that this is the least child care I will need and it is still so expensive.

Oh, and I am the main breadwinner since DH was made redundant and had to take a pay cut to find work. If I hadn't been working when DH was made redundant, we would have had a very hard time- as it was I had to up my hours to full time - needs must to keep a family afloat!!

[madmomma]

What fidgetsnowflysaid

[bbcessex]

And again - my campaign If you are a working mother, please please please do not perpetuate the "childcare as a proportion of Mother's salary" approach that is almost always stated, i.e "I'm working for nothing after childcare costs".

Childcare is a family expense. If you have a working partner, childcare costs should be stated as a proportion of both incomes.

[janey68]

Yes I interpreted it as the OP having moved since dc1, which again seems a bit strange if she was working full time with affordable childcare for her first child, and was actually the main breadwinner. Of course, there may be perfectly legitimate reasons why they moved but it does seem a little odd as it sounds as though they had a good set up before with a cm. I think she said she lives in London too. For a GP (a portable job which needs doing everywhere) it just seems an unusual time to move, between dc 1 and 2. Maybe the op will shed more light on it.

In the meantime however good the nursery is I think id look for cm or nanny arrangement

[Jellytotsforme]

KenDodd - I am one who doesn't have any "free childcare"

[greenfolder]

In my experience paying for nursery for 2 children means once you stop childcare never seems expensive again.
Did 3 years. I can still remember the first paypacket when dd2 started school and realising that I had an 500 each month.