To wonder how people actually afford childcare

[roweeena]

So I should of thought of this before I got pregnant but I have a 3 month & 27 month old. Thinking of going back to work in Sept when they will be just shy of 1 & 3.

Contacted nursery under my work - 2 days a week for the both of them will cost £1020 per month!!! Dread to think how much full time would cost.

I was full time before and DS was in with a childminder but we have moved now and this nursery seemed so handy. Just going back 2 days a week now and going to have to also work one weekend day. Just can't afford to go back to work for more than that.

We have no family close by who can help out. Both myself & my husband are in quite reasonable jobs (in fact in my job people always assume I must be loaded - media reporting). Just wondering how other people actually afford childcare for two.

Ps I know DS1 will qualify for free 15hrs from the Jan but it doesn't seem to make that much difference as its only term time & 3 hrs a day (pretty useless for working mums)

[wanderingcloud]

We can't afford childcare for our 2. Our monthly childcare bill is £170 a month more than my partner earns. We have no idea how we will manage between now and next January when the eldest will qualify for his free hours. Probably by at least one of us taking on a second job. I'm the high earner but my partner was unexpectedly made unemployed the day we found out I was pregnant and it took the best part of a year to secure the job she has so there is no way she is giving up work even if it is costing us. We also have no free/family childcare. Where we live 2 x full time at nursery is costing £1800 a month. We tried to find a childminder, however finding someone with space for 2 full time with 1 under 1 proved impossible. We are looking at a very financially gloomy 2014.

[Sixtiesqueen]

Can't believe how expensive some of your childcare is.

Ours was £550 per month for three days in a private day nursery. The cost reduced as the child got older. We both bought child care vouchers though work so it came off pre-tax salaries which was a huge help.

We had a 4 year gap; DD2 was born as DD1 went to school. I was on maternity leave when DD 1 started in reception. I was working 2.5 days a week and making £550 after childcare costs. So effectively I'd have been working for nothing if they had both been in nursery at once.

I reckoned up we have spent 46k on childcare. We have no family help at all but I do work school hours now so we have no more childcare costs since DD2 started school.

Effectively, the cost of having a child was about 20k per annum for us once I'd factored in reduced part time earnings and the childcare.

[Mimishimi]

I'm not sure how it is in the UK but here in Sydney, childminders in areas where child care is very expensive actually tend to charge more than the nurseries (on a per hour basis - of course their total incoming would be less) because there are so few who can afford to provide the service. Local councils have been trying, to no avail, to attract people into providing childminding rather than put funds into acquiring land for new centers- some articles in local papers have run some almost offensive articles (eg SAHM's/part-timers should help working mum's out by becoming childminders). Nothing wrong with trying to attract people into it and let them know of the options available but the articles of late have become a bit strident as shortages are massive and the center fees rise. To send a child to an average Sydney center with 10km of the CBD fulltime now costs approximately $25,000 a year - I think our most expensive and exclusive private schools cost less for preparatory years.

[brettgirl2]

I think that nursery is just ridiculously expensive. Plus most allow 6 free hours a day. You need to find cheaper childcare I think op. This must be London I guess, crazy place. Everyones much better off than elsewhere in the country ......not .

[JanePurdy]

I hear you OP.

DP & I made the mistake of having children before our careers, so we struggle to make it work for both of us to work on starting salaries. If the kids were in full time child care we would lose £250 a month from our income. The most financially viable for us is for me to stay at home & for DP to work full time as he is the higher earner. Obviously that has massive pitfalls for me. Currently I work full time & DP works 2 days a week, my mum looks after the kids those days, & DP locums at the weekend. No idea what we will do when my mum stops granny daycare.

How do single parents manage? My monthly take is £1200! For which I spend 52 hours a week out of the house.

[janey68]

Re: the MIRAS issue which someone refers to: bit of a shaky grasp of maths there...

Even for those eligible fo MIRAS, mortgages payments were way more expensive as a proportion of people's incomes, and this situation lasted for years.

Repayment on a £200,000 loan at 2.5 % (which is higher than current base rate but allowing for someone on a fixed rate) is around £400 per month. So that's the sort of figure someone might be looking at these days

Repayment on a £60,000 loan (ian amoiunt thats not much more than a quarter of the above loan) at 15% was around £750 per month.

I'm not denying that childcare costs are high and I wish they weren't so crippling ( though equally I think when you are paying for something so hugely valuable you should expect to pay a decent rate)

However, I agree with morethanpotatoprints that the situation is better now than in the past. At least more childcare provision is available now, many more schools have breakfast clubs and after school clubs - not enough by any means but believe me the landscape is very different to how it was a couple of decades ago. Plus of course tax credits for low earnings and eligibility for a good chunk of childcare paid for if you're on a low income. And something which is often overlooked- you aren't paying full childcare for nearly as long now because maternity leave is 4 x longer than it was.

I do appreciate though that this is one of those issues which affects the squeezed middle a lot which is probably why the OP is posting. To my mind, Having pre school children is a bit like having kids at Uni now. If you're very well off you'll be ok. If you're on a low income you'll be ok . If you're a middle earner you get shafted every which way. Many of my friends with Uni age kids are just discovering this: the parents are middle earners and their (adult!) children are not eligible to borrow anywhere near enough to cover their living costs- parents are having to fork out hundreds a month.

There is a blissful bit inbetween when the kids are in school and childcare costs drop a lot, but it's a bit depressing to think we'll have a return to spending out shed loads again.

[Bootoyou2]

Have you considered a retainer scheme? Are they still running in your area. Prt time working whilst children are young to keep skills up. 4 sessions a week on retainer scheme should more than cover 2 days in nursery for 2. I appreciate that you may have been hoping for more left over towards the mortgage but childcare shouldn't be more than 50-60% of salary I would have thought? Or could you do a shift a week in the evening for out-of-hours as a temporary measure to meet the shortfall?

[JingleJoo]

There is no perfect solution for WOHPs. Childcare is expensive, sick days/school holidays/9-3 hours are very hard to manage. But I am always shocked by how many people fail to plan and think long term when having dcs.

I realise that dome things can't be planned (twins, disabilities/ill health/redundancies etc) but it is possible to plan in most circumstances.

E.g.:
Bigger gap between DCs to minimise childcare.
Negotiation of suitable PT hours that will make childcare and/or school hours cheaper and easier to manage.
Savings to cover ML.
Advanced planning of childcare to secure best nursery.

[HaroldLloyd]

Because having babies is one thing in life you cannot plan with military precision!

[ssd]

have to agree with janey and morethan here

I dont know if part of the problem is folk are just used to having more now

when I had ds1 I had 14 wks maternity, the first 6 wks were paid at 90% of my salary, the remaining 8 wks were paid at £52 per week, dh had to save up his holidays to get time off. ds1 is 15, this isnt the dark ages

we've never had much spare cash and have had to make do for all these years, both low wage workers, me always part time as paying for childcare around dh's shifts was impossible

BUT I also remember when I first had a mortgage and interest rates were 15%.....I earned £514 a month and my interest payment on my mortgage alone was £289, I never had a penny, literally

I know childcare is expensive, but I cant understand a GP or someone else in a professional job saying they have no money, they should realise they probably have the big house, decent holidays and 2 cars and should try swapping places with someone in a council flat for a few months then come back and say how skint they were before.

ITs all relative, I know GP's earn their money and work hard for it, but so do cleaners and waitresses, its all relative.

[ssd]

janey, how are you ok if you are a low earner and your kids go to uni? dont agree with this at all!

[oneplusoneplustwo]

11 years ago, both DH and I used to work FT and DD1 was in FT nursery. I was in a very low-paid job and was left with next to nothing after childcare was paid out. It was pretty obvious that we couldn't afford a second child while DD1 was still in nursery so I quit work and retrained in a career in the NHS. I had (almost) free childcare and a bursary which meant I took home a lot more than I had been when working FT. Also had all the usual student perks like reduced council tax etc.

I have since had another 3 children and, because of career choice, we are able to live without childcare. DH works Mon-Fri and I work weekends. It's not a perfect solution, as obviously we don't get much time together as a whole family, other then my 7 weekends off a year. It does, however, mean that our salaries aren't going out on childcare and I'm effectively a SAHM Mon-Fri so am able to do all the school things and housework.

I know of other people who do similar, with one parent working in Asda or similar at the weekends.

[AntoinetteCosway]

I went back to work part time as a teacher when DD was 1. I earned 0.5 a salary but worked 4/5 days a week. Schools are buggers like that because the timetable can't suit everyone. After paying for nursery for 4 days a week I was bringing home about £200 a month which I didn't feel was enough given that I was miserable barely seeing DD. Now I'm self employed as a tutor and only earning about £10k a year but childcare costs are minimal and we're far better off.

[moogy1a]

Mikkii I don't understand your post. Why are you only entitled to 13 hours?
All 3 year olds are entitled to 15 hours per week. It doesn'ter mAtter they your DC only goes 2 days. Its not done on a pro rata basis.

[HaroldLloyd]

I can only get it in a school nursery attending a minimum if three sessions a week.

[moogy1a]

Harold. The setting can't make you attend a minimum number of sessions. The funding agreement clearly states you can't do that.
Ask for a copy of the funding agreement from the nursery or your council
Really annoys me that so many nurseries are abusing this 15 hours.

[HaroldLloyd]

Council state you have to use a school nursery if one can be provided within 3 miles if home,

They told me they don't oay private nurseries if this is the case?

I mean I'd love to get it sorted out but that's what I've been told.

[HaroldLloyd]

And the child has to be in said nursery for a minimum if three sessions, it's on the paperwork I got.

[HaroldLloyd]

He didn't get a place in our catchment one for the summer term but I didn't want to unsettle him by putting him in a different one for one term only so sucking it up and waiting till September.

I pay a local pre school but they are not on the list of council approved providers.

[moogy1a]

Sweetlord. They told you that?! That's bullshit.
ALL childcare providers are eligible for the 3 yo funding. The council are breaking the law if they do not provide funding for a nursery or childminfer OF YOUR CHOICE.
Get on to them. Cheeky tossers.

[HaroldLloyd]

Not here, that's not how they do it. I'll call them again

We are in Wales mind.

[HaroldLloyd]

I'll ring them today and double check it all.

It is very annoying as I am paying 500 a month child care so anything to get it down a bit would be pretty good.

[moogy1a]

Might be different in Wales but as to see the new legislation. Or Google eyfe legislation. Early years funded education

[HaroldLloyd]

There is a place in a nursery within 2 miles if my house but it won't be the one he will be going to in September so he would have to go there one term and change so I wrote it off for that reason.

They don't pay day care nurseries at all.

Not really much use for work, at all.

[thankfeckthereischocolate]

I'm a childminder. I charge £ 3.30 per hour..... So 40 hours per week is about £528.

I think you should look at childminders.