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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To buy this land and risk upsetting the tenants next door

999 replies

Mrsdavidcaruso · 04/01/2014 12:31

Long story short. My house is at the back of a large house which was converted into flats last year. I own the freehold to my property and have had problems with the tenants of the flats parking on what is actually my land. It got bad when the LL of the large house 'rented' a part of my property to one of his tenants as an extra parking space and it took a long time and solicitors letters to get it all sorted.

I also had to spend money on getting bollards and a fence to ensure no-one parked on my property.

My property is at the end of a T shape and I part is used as a passage to my house ( I have legal access over it) and a parking area for 5 cars rented by the LL to his tenants

However because of all the problems my solicitor has done some digging to ensure my legal right of way and that nothing comes back to bite me on the bum with the owners of the large house.

It then got interesting - it seems that the LL bought the large house at auction on a 99 year lease. My Solicitor saw the legal pack and there was no mention of the land on the paperwork.

He has now found out through the freeholder that the land does not actually belong to the large house but to the house next door.

The freeholder of the house next door has confirmed yes its his land but as he does not live in the house was unaware that the LL of the large house was using it as far as he was aware only I had access to it.

He has now contacted my Solicitors and offered to sell me the land, If I don’t want to buy he is going to offer the LL the chance to lease it from him but if he does that I am worried about my own access across it.

I am very tempted I can enlarge my garden and my husband (who rents a garage ) can also park his car on the property we can afford it and it may increase the value of my house and provide a safer environment for my DS and bump when he/she arrives.

But that is not going to sit well with the tenants of the large house and I can forsee huge problems with them as a couple were very abusive to me during the problem with the parking before.

I have a couple of weeks to decide. I know it would not fair to the tenants but its something they will have to take up with their LL as either he has been badly advised/mistaken or is chancing his arm renting out parking spaces when he knows its not his land (I suspect the latter).

According to my Solicitor there would be no legal or planning issues if I wanted to change the area to a larger garden (although I will check with the council myself)

So would I be UR to buy it

OP posts:
Oriunda · 22/01/2014 11:17

I rent out my flat via a letting agent. I pay extra for them to fully manage the property, which means I have zero interaction with the tenants (I managed the flat myself before and it was very time consuming). If anything needs doing (eg electrics go wrong) they tell me the problem but go ahead and fix without waiting for my permission because I have already instructed them to fully manage the property. If the landlord is paying the agents to fully manage the flats then he would expect them to liaise with you and vice versa and personally I think you will find things will get dealt with more professionally dealing with the agents. Obviously you just need to check that you can still claim any costs against the landlord.

PigletJohn · 22/01/2014 11:39

I have a feeling the LA might want to deal with it because the LL is an absolute arse and they don't trust him to be sensible.

OddFodd · 22/01/2014 11:52

Well at least there's an acknowledgement of your letter in that case! Movement in the right direction :)

No thread about my debacle with crazy solicitor woman - was back in the mists of time, in the days before mumsnet!

CSIJanner · 22/01/2014 12:39

It's really easy just to send a letter to the LL and CC the LA. That way, all bases are covered plus you should be able to reclaim the costs from the LL as the original letter was sent to him. Or am I being too simple?

Probably... Grin

CountryPlumpkin · 22/01/2014 13:06

In my eyes, you should certainly deal directly with the Landlord. He has caused this and he has to end it by telling his tenants the facts.

The letting agents will not be able to resolve everything directly, they will have to take instructions at some point as your complaint is not with them, so cut out the middle men (and the timewasting whaffle) and deal with the twat who has taken the piss for too long landlord.

By all means tell your solicitor to copy in the letting agents so they can inform the tenants of the facts but do not include your details.

nennypops · 22/01/2014 14:00

I think the LA should at least be copied in. LL may otherwise claim he hasn't received letters etc.

merrymouse · 22/01/2014 14:13

Does your local council put planning permission decisions on line? If so I would be nosing around their planning permission site to find out if there is any mention of access and parking when he made the application to do the redevelopment.

I'm not suggesting you start to get involved with planning decisions as clearly the land is yours, but it would be interesting to get a heads up on whether he has followed the rules.

I agree you shouldn't start going through the Letting Agents. There is no guarantee that they know anything about he law, and I would imagine that their power to act on his behalf in this kind of dispute is limited.

merrymouse · 22/01/2014 14:35

I agree that you should cc the LA.

However, as far as I can see, the landlord has broken the law and definitely misled the tenants and probably misled the letting agents. I wouldn't be assuming that the letting agents could act as his representative in this kind of dispute.

HSMMaCM · 22/01/2014 14:47

So ... When can you put the fence up?

GrandadGrumps · 22/01/2014 15:02

I agree that the LA should be copied in. The LL still needs to be the person who the solicitor deals with because you need to have a stick to beat him with if everyone ignores you. I still think the LA should be kept in the loop though so they can prompt the LL for his instructions, rather than you relying on him to push them along. The end-result you're after is that the tenants stop using your land as soon as possible. It seems to me that the easiest way of achieving this is to make sure they get the message from the people they usually deal with, which seems to be the LA.

AcrossthePond55 · 22/01/2014 15:26

I agree with those who say to deal directly with the LL. He is the one legally responsible for his rental property. He can then deal with his LA.

Seems to me that any communication with the LA just would result in them contacting the LL anyway to verify with and receive instructions from him.

Damnautocorrect · 22/01/2014 17:54

Glad your feeling better op.
Have you started the planning yet?
Might be worth getting it rolling whilst he's busy pacifying his tenants.

mameulah · 22/01/2014 18:00

Buy it. What's the dilemma? Either you are upset or the LL is.

limitedperiodonly · 22/01/2014 18:02

Hahahahahahahahhahahahhahahahha

ModernToss · 22/01/2014 18:19

This thread is very satisfying in itself, what with the dodgy landlord and the nasty tenants, and the OP has absolutely done the right thing, but I'd also love to read this one:

just read the whole thread mentioned above with the law student determined to build over the shared access in a Grade II listed house, armed with a budget of 2 grand and an unshakeable conviction of her absolute right to get her own way.

I've been back upthread, but can't see what's being referenced.

Lj8893 · 22/01/2014 18:19

Ahh loving the updates !

nickymanchester · 22/01/2014 18:31

modern That's a different thread, I think that there's a link to it somewhere on this thread

nauticant · 22/01/2014 18:39

I'd simply be putting a fence and putting notes on the parked cars that by day X they should be out or they'd be locked in the property by the fence and would have to pay any costs to be removed.

All of the to-ing and fro-ing is to avoid this ending up in court. It is irrelevant that the landlord would lose, if he ends up suddenly backed into a corner and feels a huge sense of injustice, he could stupidly go to court, bankrupt himself in the course of losing, and land the OP with years of stress and legal costs to pay (since even in the best case she wouldn't recover everything if the landlord attempted to go Jarndyce on her arse).

TimeToPassGo · 22/01/2014 21:38

Hope you had a non-vomming day DC Thanks

WhoremoaneeGrainger · 22/01/2014 22:06

DH has pointed out that after the 13th of February you would be perfectly within your rights to buy and fit wheel clamps to the cars illegally parked on your land. He also says he thinks you would need to put up a sign 24 hours before, advising that the clamping will be the initial course of action you are enforcing, the date it will be commencing from, and that you can charge them a removal fee (you have to put up the fee amount i think). Or you could of course outsource it to a parking company, and just share the profit with said parking company.

Lweji · 22/01/2014 22:34

www.adviceguide.org.uk/scotland/consumer_s/consumer_cars_and_other_vehicles_e/consumer_driving_and_parking_e/consumer_parking_tickets_s/parking_tickets_on_private_land_s.htm
www.britishparking.co.uk/Public-advice-for-parking-on-private-land
"If you find that you must have a vehicle removed from your land after 1st October 2012, and you do not have ‘lawful authority’, you must contact the authorities to remove the vehicle. This will be either the police service or your local authority who will arrange for the vehicle to be removed.
If you find that authorities are not responding to requests to remove vehicles, particularly in cases where they may be blocking access or causing danger to others, you should inform your local MP. Please also inform the BPA as we will be informing the government if this becomes a persistent problem. "

DH has pointed out that after the 13th of February you would be perfectly within your rights to buy and fit wheel clamps to the cars illegally parked on your land.

Everything I can find says otherwise. That from October 2012 it became illegal to do so.

In any case, it seems clear, and from the links above, that all you really have to do is put signs stating the condition of parking on your land. You could also issue fines, as "out of court settlement" if they continue to park.

Richelieu · 22/01/2014 22:48

It was a zombie thread, ModernToss, but oh so satisfying! - someone else linked to it upthread. link here

(Sorry, don't mean to hijack, Mrsdc)

DuchessofHaphazard · 23/01/2014 04:49

ModernToss - it's a thread linked from another thread linked on here and is here

littledrummergirl · 23/01/2014 08:52

Just read the other thread. Would love to know the outcome. I bet she had no idea the neighbour was a lawyer and thought she would fold.
Awesome.

minibmw2010 · 23/01/2014 09:08

What I love isn't that she came up against a lawyer while a law student, she came up against a Litigation Lawyer, big mistake. They live to argue, it's what they do every day and they love it, could do it all day. I'm guessing she never tried to interview for the neighbours firm, ha.