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To buy this land and risk upsetting the tenants next door

999 replies

Mrsdavidcaruso · 04/01/2014 12:31

Long story short. My house is at the back of a large house which was converted into flats last year. I own the freehold to my property and have had problems with the tenants of the flats parking on what is actually my land. It got bad when the LL of the large house 'rented' a part of my property to one of his tenants as an extra parking space and it took a long time and solicitors letters to get it all sorted.

I also had to spend money on getting bollards and a fence to ensure no-one parked on my property.

My property is at the end of a T shape and I part is used as a passage to my house ( I have legal access over it) and a parking area for 5 cars rented by the LL to his tenants

However because of all the problems my solicitor has done some digging to ensure my legal right of way and that nothing comes back to bite me on the bum with the owners of the large house.

It then got interesting - it seems that the LL bought the large house at auction on a 99 year lease. My Solicitor saw the legal pack and there was no mention of the land on the paperwork.

He has now found out through the freeholder that the land does not actually belong to the large house but to the house next door.

The freeholder of the house next door has confirmed yes its his land but as he does not live in the house was unaware that the LL of the large house was using it as far as he was aware only I had access to it.

He has now contacted my Solicitors and offered to sell me the land, If I don’t want to buy he is going to offer the LL the chance to lease it from him but if he does that I am worried about my own access across it.

I am very tempted I can enlarge my garden and my husband (who rents a garage ) can also park his car on the property we can afford it and it may increase the value of my house and provide a safer environment for my DS and bump when he/she arrives.

But that is not going to sit well with the tenants of the large house and I can forsee huge problems with them as a couple were very abusive to me during the problem with the parking before.

I have a couple of weeks to decide. I know it would not fair to the tenants but its something they will have to take up with their LL as either he has been badly advised/mistaken or is chancing his arm renting out parking spaces when he knows its not his land (I suspect the latter).

According to my Solicitor there would be no legal or planning issues if I wanted to change the area to a larger garden (although I will check with the council myself)

So would I be UR to buy it

OP posts:
IrisWildthyme · 21/01/2014 14:00

Brilliant - thanks for the update! I don't expect the tenancy agreement does cover the parking though - it sounded to me from the original OP that the landlord has a tenancy agreement on just the house, and then separately rents the land that he doesn't own at all to his tenants. Probably this is precisely because he knew that sooner or later the game would be up on renting out land he has no right to, and wouldn't want to nullify the tenancy agreements as and when that happened.

zipzap · 21/01/2014 14:00

Ooh yes, please ring up the letting agents to find out what they have been told and then to put them right on ownership of the land Grin

Given the landlord has got the letter by now (regardless of whether or not he has read it, blown a gasket, decided to contact the tenants or ignore it) then telling the letting agents, particularly if they let/manage all the flats, that you own the land and that the landlord has never owned the land, so has been a cheeky sod in collecting rent for it for years (not least shows they haven't been very good on their due diligence at checking the exact details of ownership if they have been the ones finding tenants and sorting contracts - they are going to have to deal with angry tenants and potentially refund them too).

At the very least, it will be a cheaper way of the tenants being contacted than getting your solicitors to do it! And if a phone call or letter goes out from the letting agents they will get to deal with lots of hassle too so will want to get it all sorted nicely asap.

Plus it will mean you have something to come and report back to us about soon. very soon please!

limitedperiodonly · 21/01/2014 14:03

Interesting update.

One of the many twists in my neighbour-from-hell saga had two men turn up at my house and start measuring things up.

I asked them what they were doing and they kept saying robotically: 'You are not our point of contact. Speak to your landlady.'

I asked them what they meant and said they must have made a mistake but they kept repeating it and asked me to go inside and let them get on with their work. They only left when I threatened to call the police. Their parting shot was: 'We don't want any trouble. You should speak to your landlady.'

They turned out to be a builder and a surveyor and she'd told them it was her house, I was her tenant who she was in the process of evicting and that if they met me I'd probably be hostile and tell them a pack of lies so just to ignore me.

She's not here any more.

Lweji · 21/01/2014 14:09

Honestly, and being magnanimous, I'd tell the people who park there personally, and let them know that I'd be fencing the area by x time.
Then, send a recorded letter explaining it all.

Then, I'd start fencing while they were at home, and could remove the cars, in case they still parked there.

limitedperiodonly · 21/01/2014 14:13

It might not be the letting agent's fault. If the landlord said he owns the house and showed proof and said he owned the parking spaces too you might believe him and see no reason to check.

Why would you think someone would tell such a lie and expect to get away with it? Except that my neighbour proved that people do.

IceBeing · 21/01/2014 14:19

This is awesome. That is all.

OddFodd · 21/01/2014 15:01

What do you mean 'she's not here any more' limited?? That sounds rather sinister Grin

Slatecross · 21/01/2014 15:06

I thought that too! Did you have her shot? Not judging!!!

PeterParkerSays · 21/01/2014 15:10

limited does she swim with the fishes" Wink

Jux · 21/01/2014 15:24

Yes, PeterParker, in concrete boots Grin

Jux · 21/01/2014 15:25

MrsDavid, I reckon one of the tenants has complained to the agency ....

AcrossthePond55 · 21/01/2014 15:44

If it were me, I'd put a short note on the windscreen of each car "As of XXXXX date you may no longer park here & your vehicle will be towed (if you can do that). If you have questions, call your landlord."

ChasedByBees · 21/01/2014 15:52

Shock limited

That's giving me raised blood pressure just reading that! Did the builder and surveyor ever apologise? I assume they eventually learnt the truth?

Mrsdavidcaruso · 21/01/2014 16:02

I dont think I read limiteds thread is there a link to it?

OP posts:
ChasedByBees · 21/01/2014 16:34

She posted here at 14.03.

VivaLeBeaver · 21/01/2014 16:38

Wow, that's crazy sending people round to your house telling them it's her house. What were they measuring up for? I hope you don't get problems down the line with this sort of thing been ongoing. You don't want to come home and find your drive has been dug up, etc,.

limitedperiodonly · 21/01/2014 16:59

mrsdavidcaruso I never posted about it directly on here because it was drawing to an end by the time I joined MN and even if I was a member I probably wouldn't have posted about it while it was happening.

That's just me.

I did offer commiserations to someone else in a similar position later. Partly because I seriously wondered whether my neighbour-from-hell had moved next door to her because it seemed so familiar.

I did a link earlier. I namechanged because at the time my neighbour still scared me Grin

Anyway, I wrote a post in reply to the people who'd joked about her sleeping with the fishes but deleted it because it got really long and by the time I'd finished it seemed like a self-indulgent hi-jack.

But I'm going to reinstate it because you've asked and it's free therapy Grin

Hope you don't mind.

All the best of luck in the world. It sounds like you'll be all right. You certainly seem to be doing the right things. Here it is...

I fantasised about her violent death so many times, but I let her live and she has moved and is no doubt making some other poor cow's life a misery.

It was a boundary dispute over my garden and what she claimed was her right to access to some of the rest of our property.

It's why I was banging on about adverse possession earlier on because that became part of the dispute. I became intimately acquainted with the rules and would recite them as a magic talisman to try to make myself feel better when things seemed black.

We won it; and looking back, it always seemed likely that we would. But these people cause such misery and doubt. So you don't need anyone raising more doubt.

We spent a lot of money and a lot of time talking about this mad bitch and her mad cunt of a husband who was the secondary mover. I strongly suspect they met in the same mental institution. And if anyone wants to pull me up on any of that: forget it.

If we'd have lost, our house might have been unsaleable, or only at a massive discount. Or we'd have been trapped here and have to put up with her sticking two fingers up at us every day, and she'd have done that and taken pleasure in it.

Outwardly she and her husband were really respectable. Not your Shameless/Benefits Street stereotypes. That's why the builder and surveyor believed her. Why wouldn't they? They were just doing a job. Why would anyone lie about such a thing?

And yes, chasedbybees, they did apologise. But when I'd calmed down, I realised they didn't really have much to apologise for. As far as they were concerned it was a legitimate job.

Their visit was partly her using them to harass us but also partly because in her addled brain it strengthened her case to show that she wanted to make improvements that we didn't plan to make.

In a way I admire her elan. Most neighbours-from-hell can only think of bombarding you with pizzas and minicabs Grin

When it was over, one neighbour told me something that had been said and apologised to me for believing it. But I can't blame her because it seemed plausible and she was too embarrassed to ask us the truth.

One of the things I've learned is that if you have good neighbours, even if they annoy you a little bit, hug them tight and pray they never leave Grin

The other thing is get a good solicitor and listen to him or her, not anyone else.

The last one is that there are a lot of these people about Sad

Sorry for the hi-jack OP. It's been five years since she fucked off and I don't think I'll ever get over it, so please understand.

Yours sounds more a chancer than screwy. It sounds like you're going to be all right.

Please update. I love these threads. It's therapy for me for me whenever someone like you wins. Grin

limitedperiodonly · 21/01/2014 17:00

OMG that's long. Sorry.

Rooners · 21/01/2014 17:07

Coco (sorry, going back a few days here!) I didn't mean to imply that you were a snob etc - I was merely commenting on the possible reasons for the people you mentioned acting in that way.

'Some people are just very very snobbish, very scared of anything they don't understand.

.. more likely worried about the effect on the value of their home.'

Yes - the value of their home being affected because other people are snobbish and scared of people with learning disabilities. Probably.

limitedperiodonly · 21/01/2014 17:16

vivalebeaver It's over. She's gone. But I spent some time thinking that like Michael Myers, she would rise again Grin

Their visit was a mixture of her harassment and screwyness.

Kind of more middle-class screwy harassment than bombarding people with pizzas.

VivaLeBeaver · 21/01/2014 17:28

That's good, missed the bit where you said she'd gone. Bet you breathed a sigh of relief.

OddFodd · 21/01/2014 18:11

God limited, I felt sick reading that. I lived in a house that had been divided into two flats years ago and a psychobitch from hell moved into the other flat. She bullied me relentlessly and I would dread coming home to her threatening letters on solicitors headed paper (she worked there and was not allowed to use their headed paper for her baseless threats but I didn't know that at the time). She made my life an utter misery - I cried when I finally completed the sale (she threatened to block it).

merrymouse · 21/01/2014 18:19

As far as i remember letting agents don't check things like deeds before they let a house although I am sure there is a bit of paper that you have to sign that says that you have given them accurate information.

I've never let a car parking space though.

It sounds as though this land lord is a bit of a scam artist. I don't think you forget to notice that a property you acquire doesn't have parking spaces. Did the current landlord convert the flats?

limitedperiodonly · 21/01/2014 18:25

Oh God OddFodd. So you are also familiar with arriving home all happy on a Friday evening to find a chunky legal bundle of threats on your doormat when there's bugger-all you can do except worry until you can speak to your solicitor on Monday.

Who talks you down from a ledge.

After a couple of letters I learned that. But these people are cunts, aren't they?

nennypops · 21/01/2014 18:29

Oddfodd, I hope you made a formal complaint to the Law Society. It sounds like they might need to make a formal order that the psychobitch from hell should never be employed by solicitors again - I understand they have powers to do that.

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