To think capping child tax credits at two children will plunge more families into poverty

[SoonToBeSix]

Can't link but article is in the Daily Fail. A Tory mp has proposed capping child benefit and child tax credits at two children in order to win votes.
What happens to those children whose parents circumstances change ie redundancy or there is a contraception failure?
This government is taking welfare cuts too far while continuing to let the very rich avoid paying the correct taxes.

[Mushypeasandchipstogo]

Yep I'm with you Sadoldbag

[Darkesteyes]

Sadoldbag A policy like that will allow a finnancially abusive man to continue abusing his ex by paying one week but withholding odd payments at random.
This is why it was decided that income support should be payable whether the child support was paid or not because it was a. unworkable and b. our Goverments seem to be less willing to implement strict policies against absent fathers.

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

No Sadoldbag I am trying to demonstrate how tarring everyone with the same brush is a flawed plan. I am on full benefits and I am cross too. But the fact is, these policies come in to "deal" with the few people that are taking advantage, and every single person who finds themselves in need of help loses out.

There has to be a fairer way. I think having 9 kids is ridiculous, but there's a lot of difference between 2 and 9.

I can tell you now, that even if I was working a 60 hour week for NMW I would still feel the same. I know that because I have been there, and I would never begrudge anyone the pittance that is benefits.

[annieorangutan]

Yeah I think it is woowoo as not that many people have lota of children and I would prefer money going to children than politicians wages or 100k 'art' things in towns or god knows what else.

[annieorangutan]

I also do not admire anything about the american system.

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

Who is shutting down the conversation now Lying?

Of course it matters what people think.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

Agrees with WooWooOwl and sadoldbag again; it's not about penalising mothers. It's about making parents take responsibility for the children they choose to bring into the world.

... in respect of wannabe's last post, I wouldn't call benefits a 'pittance' either. If they're so meagre then not worth having? It might not be sufficient money for what somebody expects to have but it adds up when there are multiple (millions of) 'pittances' paid out.

Thank heavens we have the 'backstop' in this country, I'm grateful for it and I'm not receiving benefits.

[mummymeister]

I have a foot in both camps. on the one hand there are lots of people with > 2 children who then lose jobs or find themselves on benefits. on the other its unfair that people already on benefits who have been on them for many years just keeping having child after child after child knowing that the state will pay for them. we cant all keep going on about the earths resources running out and the cost of energy and all that stuff without accepting that one of the biggest threats to the planet as a whole is the number of people on it. I guess if I had to make a decision it would be no extra benefits for more than 2 children if you haven't worked for longer than you have been on benefits and if the child was conceived whilst on benefits.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

What are you talking about, wannabe? I'm not shutting down anything - I said that the Government pays no heed. Obviously it's not just them as you don't seem to comprehend much either.

[farrowandbawlbauls]

The number of people who have 9 kids or more is very low but time and time again these numbers are dragged out to fuel the fire in order to gain support for a policy (usually about benefits) that wouldn't work if most people took 5 minutes out to read about and applied a little common sense.

[WooWooOwl]

Well if you think the current system works well then I can accost that, but there a lot of pole that disagree, and for very valid reasons.

I don't particularly want more money going into politicians bank accounts or into town art either, but there are plenty of other services that society needs that could do with it.

[stgeorgiaandthedragon]

Farrow - I don't think it's about not applying common sense, it's about not having children you cannot afford to feed, clothe and house yourself whether that is three or nine.

Do people honestly think the government - any government - should just keep giving people money?

Can people really not see why this is an issue?

[WooWooOwl]

Accept, not accost, that would be weird.

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

Get personal sure.

They are meagre and my point is that all these people getting cross are under the impression people on benefits are living it up. Its not an easy life, and we are fortunate enough to not have any debts to pay off, so we have all the money we are given to live on. I don't know what we would have done if we had credit cards and finance and a mortgage when we had to claim.

Yes it all adds up, but the percentage of the whole countrys spending that goes on benefits is small, and the majority of that goes into pensions. So the amounts we are talking about here are tiny in relation to the whole budget.

Which is why I mentioned upthread that the next thing to be attacked will be NHS provision for maternity care, and it will keep going until we are America.

[annieorangutan]

The system that needs to be sorted is finding jobs for the people that need them.

[dreamingofsun]

stgeorgia - agree with your point. Its not actually the 'government' though is it? Its the taxpayer. Its that person who is struggling to cover the cost of the 2 children they could afford, forking out tax for the person who just decided they would have as many as they fancied

[farrowandbawlbauls]

I can't see it being an issue when they waste billions on a poxy railway, millions on an IT system that doesn't work, pay rises for politcians that are not up to the job and expenses that the rest of us can only dream about.

So no, for the sake of giving money to the miniscule number of families with 9 children to ensure that everyone get's help - then no, I don't see the problem.

What about those who were able to afford to have 3 or more children and never claimed anything before - disater is only an illness away and you are closer to loosing everything than you realise - will you still say to these people "Well tough, you should have made arrangements in case it happens so you can't have any money"

[Sadoldbag]

Annie the problem is many people don't want a mc job or to tend a fields my bil prime example has a 1st but has no job and feels he's above working in KFC


But not above claiming.

This is what gets many peoples goats many would simply rather claim then get ay job till they get something that suits

[annieorangutan]

Even if he wanted to there is no way near enough jobs and I totally agree with farrow. The government wants to lower living standards for all and is attempting to get the public on side

[dreamingofsun]

farrow - nothing in life will ever be perfect, but you can't just give up because there are issues with other totally non related things such as railways.

its not 9 its 3+.

If you have 3 children then you make sure you have some savings in case things go pear shaped. you take some responsibility for yourself and your family. you do some planning

[Sadoldbag]

Farrow it's not about people with 9 children it's about people with *any amount of children they can't afford.


The people opposite to me don't have 9 children they have 4 why SHOUD me any my family work to support there children we would have loved to have 4 children but can't afford it

[farrowandbawlbauls]

It's the race to the bottom again annie.

[custardo]

the 9 kids thing is a Daily mail orgasm and trotted out every time they have some benefits bollocks to 'report' on

these famililies are very rare - and concentrating on the larger families and introducing fucking wide spread policy based on this is bullshit

bulllllllllllllllllll

shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit

its all smoke and mirrors
if austerity was really a thing we should be concerned about

if it was

MPs shouldnt get a 11% pay rise


MPs claimed £23.8 million in a year, (parliamentary watchdog IPSA)



The Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority said our Commons representatives claimed £23.8 million in non-payroll expenses in 2012/2013

and there is ...............35 BILLION

35 FUCKING BILLION

IN uncollected taxes

this benefit bollocks is an attack on the poor pure and simple.

it feeds the greed eyed monster that lives in people and fuels the individualistic mentality and evil evil stance of 'how dare the poor...'

AUSTERITY MY FUCKING ARSE

yet everyone gets free school meals - utter bullshit

the fucking Red Cross are championing FOOD drives..... the red cross in this country doing this for the first time since SECOND world war

if being on or receiving benefits is so fucking luxurious, quite your fucking job you green eyed monsters

this country is disgusting, distgusting

the Conservatives are vile disgusting creatures who banquet on ill gotten gains and links to rich company chums - they dont collect taxes from

sitting in golden chairs telling the rest of us to tighten out belts

when MPs such as LIAM FOX claim 3p for expenses

and that utter badgerfucking arse shit wank of a COCK IDS claims for underpants

i pay for IDS Y-FRONTS

THE CHEEKY FUCKER

i am apoplectic with rage

then they all pay their sister/ brother/ wife/mistress/best friend to be their "secretary

IDS and betsygate en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betsygate

yet people looking for work in this climate are fucked. leeks from inside the DWP are abound at the moment
targets to sanction job seekers - for nothing

people are killing themselves, see callumslist

utter bastards

[stgeorgiaandthedragon]

That's exactly it, dreaming

I am certainly not in favour of everything done by the government but I can't see how saying, "Well, I don't want a railway, so here, have as much money as you like!" to others is productive or helpful.

"Most people are only an illness away from disaster" - true. That applies to those of us who do not claim benefits as well as those who do! As a result, we ALL need to plan our families around our individual circumstances.

It's lunacy to have a situation where those who work cannot afford large families while those who do not can.

[annieorangutan]

Totally agree that anyone who falls for this is very naive.