To think capping child tax credits at two children will plunge more families into poverty

[SoonToBeSix]

Can't link but article is in the Daily Fail. A Tory mp has proposed capping child benefit and child tax credits at two children in order to win votes.
What happens to those children whose parents circumstances change ie redundancy or there is a contraception failure?
This government is taking welfare cuts too far while continuing to let the very rich avoid paying the correct taxes.

[MoreThanChristmasCrackers]

Doesn't most of the welfare bill go on pensioners.
Also, is Tax credit counted as welfare, it seems sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.
It used to be two separate things altogether.

We all have choices in the number of children we have, except the odd surprise.

[Sadoldbag]

But Annie he was offered a job working with my oh but apparently he has a 1st and would not contemplate such a job a porter

And why has he such a view because he knows he will be taken care off and won't lift a finger until he finds the perfect job in a gallery

[stgeorgiaandthedragon]

WHY are people going on about nine children!?

I had ONE child I couldn't afford - I made the extremely difficult decision not to continue with the pregnancy as a result.

I am not saying everyone who gets pregnant without financial backing should terminate it but they DO need to take responsibility for that pregnancy and if continuing with it is a must then THEY need to take the financial impact - not the state.

That applies to one child, or nine.

[Sadoldbag]

Agreed people with twins should be exempt and people who have adopted

And that's pretty much it really

[custardo]

i want to take responsibility for not paying for MPs underpants

[stgeorgiaandthedragon]

It's unlikely someone would be given the go-ahead for adoption without having reasonably stable finances. Says a lot, really.

I think the cap would come down to births rather than actual children - thereby excluding twins and triplets and any other multiple births.

[custardo]

i want to take responsibility for not paying for their fucking sister to be a 50k a year fucking secretary

[TheBigJessie]

The idea of encouraging people to cut their cloth according to their means is appealing, I get that, but you can't build government policy around the assumption that the population is entirely made up of reasonable, rational people who weigh up the pros and cons of each decision. Because it really isn't. And so people will suffer as a result of such a policy. Including children who didn't choose to be born.

In fact, there is, among other things, a plentiful supply of women who didn't grow up in supportive families, witnessing gender equality.

There is no shortage of women, who from the very start of their dating life, have been prepped to take financial, physical, and emotional abuse as what men do. There's also lots of women who will believe any lie their boyfriend says about his ex, and never question why he shows no interest in his children with her. And have a child(ren) with him. And then be genuinely shocked when he pays sweet FA for their support in a few years.

[Sadoldbag]

stgeorgiaandthedragon but I do think if you have adopted 5 children which are very difficult to place you should keep your CB as your saving the county thousands by adopting

[custardo]

What: Elephant lamps

Who: Michael Gove

How much: £134.30

bastard

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

Here here Custardo.

I had to laugh at the Y fronts.

IDS complains about tax payers paying for benefit claimants third child, while wearing Y fronts paid for by said tax payer. You couldn't make this shit up.

[custardo]

What: Moat cleaning

Who: Douglas Hogg

How much: £2,115

MOAT CLEANING

[custardo]

What: Trimming hedge around “helipad”

Who: Michael Spicer

How much: £609

HELIPAD

[farrowandbawlbauls]

Custardo - who was it who claimed for the heating of their stables?

I can't remember.

[dreamingofsun]

PM's pay is totally unrelated to how many children per family taxpayers should fund.

If you are an MP living in the south it actually isn't a vast amount of money - especially not for someone who one hopes is educated, and is living away from home doing a responsible job with long hours. But thats not relevant to this argument

[Sadoldbag]

Two wrongs don't make a right mps filling there boots is not on NOR is having children you can't afford to look after

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

wannabe... I apologise for my glib comment but it didn't seem as if you were listening to anybody but those agreeing with your point. The politicians are not listening to anybody.

It's not just the 'meagre' benefits it's the other costs that we ALL contribute to (by way of being beneficiaries, for clarification). The NHS - it can't afford treatment costs as it is. Bringing multiple more people into the world really doesn't make sense, or at least it doesn't to me. The costs come from somewhere. If the benefits 'pot' is kept limitless (as it currently is) then something has to give.

There just isn't the money available and I think the cap should come into being. Each child has two parents (whether they're together or not or deceased - there were two) and the cap is applicable.

I think that the politicians' salaries should be looked at and capped very stringently indeed, along with all the other perks that they seem to amass.

[custardo]

it is completely related

why do you give a shit how many children people have?

why have you been sucked in to this utter bullshit looking at people on benefits and saying 'how dare they'

[custardo]

Shaun Woodward claimed mortgage payments on a flat in London, despite the fact that he owns at least seven houses with his wife Camilla, a member of the Sainsbury family. Between 2004 and 2008 Woodward claimed £98,000 in mortgage interest payments.
Others have been up to similar schemes. Senior Tory Francis Maude billed the taxpayer £35,000 in two years for mortgage interest payments on a London flat, when he owned a house just a few hundred yards away

[stgeorgiaandthedragon]

Absolutely, Sad and dreaming.

And, if I may, I think this is an example of shutting down discussion - posting with lots of capitals a load of unrelated arguments.

If you want to discuss MPs pay, start a thread about it. This is about capping benefits.

It's like saying we shouldn't prosecute shoplifters at all because armed robbers don't get enough time in jail. The latter may be wrong - it doesn't mean the former is OK either.

[farrowandbawlbauls]

"PM's pay is totally unrelated to how many children per family taxpayers should fund"

It is when they are about to get a rise despite the country being broke and all these cuts are needed.

[Sadoldbag]

I know dream girl it's like saying people commit fraud so we all should be allowed to speed


Both wrong and unrelated

[stgeorgiaandthedragon]

Custado I can't speak for others, but I care because I pay a fuck of a lot of tax and I think there are priorities for the country which don't involve offering an incentive for people to have large families.

OK?

[Worried3]

Many couples make the decision to limit their family to the number of children they can afford, not the number the might have preferred. That is called being responsible.

My salary will not rise if I chose to have another child- I will have to support any further children on my current income. I think the same should apply to those relying on benefits (whether solely or supplementing their wages) to bring up their children.

If you cannot support another child on your current budget, then the answer is not to have more children. Mistakes happen, but at the end of the day it is still up the couple involved to take responsibility for their actions.

The bottom line is that having more children than you can afford to support is irresponsible- whether that is 1 child or 10 is irrelevant. Why should the state pick up the bill for your decision to reproduce?

I think having a cap is sensible- although I don't think it would, or should, apply retrospectively and there would need to be exceptions for multiple births.

[MoreThanChristmasCrackers]

StGeorge

There are plenty people who adopt and receive tax credits what rubbish.
There are also plenty people who work and receive them too.