To ask you not to buy angora products? (Warning - graphic link)

[Resideria]

Was thinking of buying angora socks for my mum for Christmas before I read about the unspeakable practices behind angora fur production. I had no idea! Apparently 90% of all angora is produced in China, link is here:
www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57612939/peta-releases-video-of-angora-rabbit-investigation-in-china/

[worldgonecrazy]

It's also worth noting that PETA are not really a reliable source - they use a lot of shock/horror tactics to try and get their opinion shared widely.

The link wouldn't work for me so I haven't seen the film.

[DuckToWater]

I'm just wary of blanket statements such as "In China...x happens".

It's a massive country. It's like saying "In Europe..."

[DuckToWater]

It's also worth noting that PETA are not really a reliable source - they use a lot of shock/horror tactics to try and get their opinion shared widely.

Indeed, and serve their own ends.

[worldgonecrazy]

Uggs are made in China, which means that the animals are probably not the best looked after in the world. Celtic & Co (previously Celtic Sheepskin) use British wool, and they are made in Cornwall.

[MyMILisfromHELL]

Horrific

[bundaberg]

i read earlier that actually ugg-alikes are often worse as they're made out of the skin of raccoon dogs which are often skinned alive! ffs

[WowOoo]

The link didn't work for me but I Googled it and found it.

It's horrible. The jumper I'm wearing today contains 19% angora - and I'm repulsed. It wasn't a cheap jumper, but I can find no info about how they source angora. Not going to buy any more.
Is yak OK? Surely they just shear it?

I had no idea about down either. I have a lot of down - coats, duvets and pillows etc. I'm glad to hear that John Lewis uses by product down.

[DuckToWater]

About 3/4 of the things in my house are made in China. Difficult to find a reasonably priced alternative that isn't, in most cases.

I don't have Uggs, but I have a cheap man-made fibre alternative. Probably made by children paid 50p a week and with a carbon footprint as big as this house.

[lookatmybutt]

ItsAllGoingToBeFine - Umm, if it affects you some much, go vegan! You don't have to wear or eat animal products....

I agree with you. It's not a stupid comment. People are happy to bang on about animal welfare for as long as it's convenient to them - it's easy enough to not buy angora or down, but what about everything else?

Pretty much everything you can buy anywhere is exploitative or harmful to animals or humans - and you can also include a lot of medical treatment, cosmetic products, meat and dairy production, fishing... the list goes on. You would really need to go completely self sufficient.

An old acquaintance of mine did - lived in the woods with a collective, made her own tampax. That was until she got a kidney infection and needed hospital treatment, whereupon she was unceremoniously drummed out.

I don't know if they still do, but PETA did believe for a long time that any form of animal ownership is wrong: no livestock, no dogs or cats as pets. When she did still live in a rather naice apartment with these people, the rest of her flatmates refused to feed their cat because it involved touching meat.

Then also PETA do charming things like this:

www.peta.org/blog/cannibalistic-attack-greyhound-bus-prompts-ad/

I believe they released it a couple of days before the victim's funeral.

Don't get me wrong, not all vegetarians/vegans are nutjobs. I believe it should be a well reasoned and thought-out decision that will most certainly involve a large amount of compromise unless you want to live in a tree.

[lookatmybutt]

oops, I mixed up some of my paragraphs there. Sorry for any confusion.

[bundaberg]

why does it have to be all or nothing though?

surely, like everything, we make our decisions on what we can and are able to do?

not buying down/angora/sheepskin is easy for me to do, likewise raising awareness of issues.
I also am vegetarian (after nearly 4 yrs of intolerance-forced-veganism) and I rarely eat eggs or buy milk (when i do it's organic/free range/local). But I am not militant enough to turn down a jelly baby, or a piece of cake!

we all do what we're happy to do, and people are allowed to be shocked and upset by this without wanting to give up milk!

[AgathaF]

I have read, although can't find it now to reference, that there are no guaranteed ethical down products in the UK. One reason for this is that the supply chain is long and complicated, so the very small quantities of ethically produced down almost always get mixed with the massive quantities of non-ethically produced down. M&S have said that they try very hard to source ethically produced down, but for this very reason they are not able to guarantee that their down products are ethical. Exactly the same for John Lewis - they state that they try to only use ethically sourced down, but in actual fact are not able to guarantee it.

There is always an alternative to down products, coats/duvets/pillows or whatever. There is no real need to buy them.

[Slippersandacuppa]

I agree about people being hypocritical. Seeing what goes on and then carrying on regardless while pretending to be upset but it's not hard to make a difference. The attitude that unless you're living in a cave eating berries that have fallen off a bush, you're going to be involved in some sort if animal cruelty is probably true to an extent unfortunately, but that doesn't mean give up and buy/ eat what you want. We eat eggs, but from our own chickens. It's easy to find ethically raised/ sourced food now and just as easy to have a quick look at the leaping bunny website to find cruelty-free products. It means that you may not get the things you want, and that can be a hard shift to make. It depends how important you think it is but I do think that evey decision makes a difference.

[lookatmybutt]

ColdTeaAgain - What a silly comment, you can still consume animal products and remain ethical. Education is the key. The more awareness there is of the sorts of things that go on, then hopefully these practices will gradually lessen until they cease to exist. Its all about supply and demand. Sadly some people value cheap products over the lives of these poor creatures.

I also didn't know that down was produced in the same way sad I don't own any down duvets and now I never will!

There are so many things wrong with your post, I don't know where to begin. If you think that buying more expensive products is the solution, then you're living in cloud cuckoo land.

Very few, sometimes big and prestigious, companies even know the reality of what goes on in their factories, how things are sourced, etc. (or at least they pretend they don't).

You're extremely naive.

[lookatmybutt]

Slippersandacuppa -

The voice of reason! Those are some good tips.

[DuckToWater]

There may be an alternative to a down coat, but mine is the best winter coat I've ever had, by a long chalk - warmest and most waterproof.

I don't think it's possible to source a 100% ethical coat that ticks all these boxes.

[MarshaBrady]

It needs to be clearer. I will buy down if it is a by-product.

I'd make more of that as suppliers, if John Lewis do this they should state it clearly. They probably do already, but I'll look for it now.

[DuckToWater]

I also have chickens and only eat their eggs. But that's because they taste nicer than the alternative.

[kawaii]

I feel guilty to have bought a Boden down coat last year.

Anyway I won't again and will avoid Angora too. I haven't bought Merino wool for years due to the cruelty involved in shearing the sheep.

It is very hard to be ethical, I think buy as little as possible is probably the best way!

[bundaberg]

oh no what is cruel about the shearing of merino sheep???

[ouryve]

Not all cashmere is great, either. If it's cheap, it probably includes rabbit or other fur and the goat fur is highly unlikely to come from free range goats, but more likely intensively farmed ones, fed on artificial diets. Mostly in China.

[ouryve]

It's not the shearing, bundaberg - it's the method of cutting away the skin around their backsides to prevent fly strike.

[worldgonecrazy]

If the alternative to animal products is man made items from petro chemicals, what about all the marine animals harmed in their production? Is a fluffy animal's life worth more than fish?

[Retropear]

It sheds like billy o anyway. I put back a Whitestuff scarf for this very reason,had no idea it was cruel too.

Thanks op.

[bundaberg]

ohh mulesing? i read about that earlier.

again, is that always done? or are there manufacturers that don't do it?

not merino, but ugg claim that none of their sheep are mulesed