To ask you not to buy angora products? (Warning - graphic link)

[Resideria]

Was thinking of buying angora socks for my mum for Christmas before I read about the unspeakable practices behind angora fur production. I had no idea! Apparently 90% of all angora is produced in China, link is here:
www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57612939/peta-releases-video-of-angora-rabbit-investigation-in-china/

[Pointeshoes]

Having recently got two beautiful bunnies I Couldn't watch it. But I'm disgusted , so is my DH. Won't be buying. Makes me so upset and angry when animals are hurt like this. It's sick.
Didn't know about the down either so thank you for the info.

[KittensoftPuppydog]

Thanks for letting me know. Won't buy it now.

[tiredoutgran]

I can't watch but, as has already been mentioned, feathers for feather and down items are collected in the same way. As a huge fan of all things goose (live pet ones) I was horrified to see how this is done and the images have never left me. To see a beautiful bird crying as it scrambled away from the people who had just stripped it bare was heart breaking. I believe this was in China too. I think they have a very different view of animals to us. I will certainly never buy angora product again.

[70isaLimitNotaTarget]

DM Warning
there's an article on this very subject in the Mail Online.

I'm a hard faced old bat IRL (I've been vegetarian for 33 years so I've seen plenty of those leaflets that do the rounds)

But this?

Turned My Stomach

[steeking]

Instead of boycotting all these products we should be writing to the companies concerned to ask them where they source their down or angora , and ask them what checks they do to ensure animal welfare is upheld

[worldgonecrazy]

here and here

It's probably safe to say, in any industry, where manufacturers want lots of it and want it as cheaply as possibly, there's going to be an ethical or environmental cost.

Exactly.

I wonder how many people know the true human cost of their cotton and gold? If we looked into any natural material we would find that animals or people are suffering because of our desire to own things. The best we can hope for is that consumers educate themselves about alternatives and lobby the companies that we spend our money with to act in an ethical manner.

[lookatmybutt]

Softsheen, for starters oil spills cause harm to sea life due to accidents during transportation and production. Also, transportation costs in terms of carbon footprint. Also, also non-renewable and polluting to the environment overall.

Have you been living under a rock or something?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exxon_Valdez_oil_spill

www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/stories/the-13-largest-oil-spills-in-history

[ouryve]

Petrochemicals are a finite resource, anyhow. That's why fracking is such a global concern, at the moment. All the easy to get at oil deposits are almost depleted.

Even the cotton industry is far from spotless. Conditions for workers are horrendous.

It's probably safe to say, in any industry, where manufacturers want lots of it and want it as cheaply as possibly, there's going to be an ethical or environmental cost.

[SoftSheen]

worldgonecrazy How are marine animals harmed during production of petrochemicals? Are you thinking of the destruction of the marine floor caused by oil drilling?

[SilverApples]

'If the alternative to animal products is man made items from petro chemicals, what about all the marine animals harmed in their production? Is a fluffy animal's life worth more than fish?'

It's not the life, it's the pain and terror and cruelty involved.

[bundaberg]

ohh mulesing? i read about that earlier.

again, is that always done? or are there manufacturers that don't do it?

not merino, but ugg claim that none of their sheep are mulesed

[Retropear]

It sheds like billy o anyway. I put back a Whitestuff scarf for this very reason,had no idea it was cruel too.

Thanks op.

[worldgonecrazy]

If the alternative to animal products is man made items from petro chemicals, what about all the marine animals harmed in their production? Is a fluffy animal's life worth more than fish?

[ouryve]

It's not the shearing, bundaberg - it's the method of cutting away the skin around their backsides to prevent fly strike.

[ouryve]

Not all cashmere is great, either. If it's cheap, it probably includes rabbit or other fur and the goat fur is highly unlikely to come from free range goats, but more likely intensively farmed ones, fed on artificial diets. Mostly in China.

[bundaberg]

oh no what is cruel about the shearing of merino sheep???

[kawaii]

I feel guilty to have bought a Boden down coat last year.

Anyway I won't again and will avoid Angora too. I haven't bought Merino wool for years due to the cruelty involved in shearing the sheep.

It is very hard to be ethical, I think buy as little as possible is probably the best way!

[DuckToWater]

I also have chickens and only eat their eggs. But that's because they taste nicer than the alternative.

[MarshaBrady]

It needs to be clearer. I will buy down if it is a by-product.

I'd make more of that as suppliers, if John Lewis do this they should state it clearly. They probably do already, but I'll look for it now.

[DuckToWater]

There may be an alternative to a down coat, but mine is the best winter coat I've ever had, by a long chalk - warmest and most waterproof.

I don't think it's possible to source a 100% ethical coat that ticks all these boxes.

[lookatmybutt]

Slippersandacuppa -

The voice of reason! Those are some good tips.

[lookatmybutt]

ColdTeaAgain - What a silly comment, you can still consume animal products and remain ethical. Education is the key. The more awareness there is of the sorts of things that go on, then hopefully these practices will gradually lessen until they cease to exist. Its all about supply and demand. Sadly some people value cheap products over the lives of these poor creatures.

I also didn't know that down was produced in the same way sad I don't own any down duvets and now I never will!

There are so many things wrong with your post, I don't know where to begin. If you think that buying more expensive products is the solution, then you're living in cloud cuckoo land.

Very few, sometimes big and prestigious, companies even know the reality of what goes on in their factories, how things are sourced, etc. (or at least they pretend they don't).

You're extremely naive.

[Slippersandacuppa]

I agree about people being hypocritical. Seeing what goes on and then carrying on regardless while pretending to be upset but it's not hard to make a difference. The attitude that unless you're living in a cave eating berries that have fallen off a bush, you're going to be involved in some sort if animal cruelty is probably true to an extent unfortunately, but that doesn't mean give up and buy/ eat what you want. We eat eggs, but from our own chickens. It's easy to find ethically raised/ sourced food now and just as easy to have a quick look at the leaping bunny website to find cruelty-free products. It means that you may not get the things you want, and that can be a hard shift to make. It depends how important you think it is but I do think that evey decision makes a difference.

[AgathaF]

I have read, although can't find it now to reference, that there are no guaranteed ethical down products in the UK. One reason for this is that the supply chain is long and complicated, so the very small quantities of ethically produced down almost always get mixed with the massive quantities of non-ethically produced down. M&S have said that they try very hard to source ethically produced down, but for this very reason they are not able to guarantee that their down products are ethical. Exactly the same for John Lewis - they state that they try to only use ethically sourced down, but in actual fact are not able to guarantee it.

There is always an alternative to down products, coats/duvets/pillows or whatever. There is no real need to buy them.

[bundaberg]

why does it have to be all or nothing though?

surely, like everything, we make our decisions on what we can and are able to do?

not buying down/angora/sheepskin is easy for me to do, likewise raising awareness of issues.
I also am vegetarian (after nearly 4 yrs of intolerance-forced-veganism) and I rarely eat eggs or buy milk (when i do it's organic/free range/local). But I am not militant enough to turn down a jelly baby, or a piece of cake!

we all do what we're happy to do, and people are allowed to be shocked and upset by this without wanting to give up milk!