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AIBU?

To ask you what to do because I can't cope with DD any more?

128 replies

Helpmydaughterisanightmare · 11/11/2013 13:41

Name changed for this.

I have a DD, 30 months. She has always been what would charitably be described as "high needs" but now she is just becoming unmanageable.

She has never slept through the night. On a good night, she might be up once and then provided she is given milk, she might go back to sleep. On a bad night, she can be up 3/4/5/6/7 times.

Last night, she woke up at 1am. I gave her some milk, which she drank. She then decided she wanted me to sleep in her room (for context - I never do this!). I told her I wasn't going to, because I was tired, and needed to go to bed. She then screamed/tantrummed from 1.30am - 3.30am. There was literally nothing I could do to placate her so after checking she didn't have a temperature, didn't have a wet/dirty nappy, and didn't need any more milk, I left her to it, checking regularly to make sure she was ok, and putting her back in her bed.

At 3.30am the neighbours banged on the wall Sad

I took her downstairs and she continued to scream hysterically, not sure why, but presumably because I wasn't sitting in her room with her. Eventually she calmed down and I took her back upstairs and put her in bed. She chatted to herself for a bit and then went to sleep.

This morning she woke up at 7am, miserable and cross. She then had a further tantrum of epic proportions, screaming and crying, refusing to get dressed.

In the end (after 45 minutes of trying to get her clothes on, her kicking, screaming and ripping them off) I had to go out to pick something up from the shops, so had to force her into the pushchair, in her pyjamas, sockless, shoeless and coatless. She screamed for a further 45 minutes. People were staring at us in the street.

I have been in tears twice today because I just can't cope with this any more. I have an older child too and it isn't fair on him, and I am failing at work because I am so tired I can't cope with that either. It is causing friction between me and DH.

She is supposed to have been referred to the behaviour clinic but no one has been in touch. I called them this morning and they said they would call me back - they haven't. I am so desperate and I don't know how I can get help.

OP posts:
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differentnameforthis · 12/11/2013 06:27

Not sure if anyone has suggested it, but stop giving her milk when she wakes. She needs nothing more than water at night now.

When she wakes, make it as boring as possible. No milk, no talking, just the expectation that you want her to sleep! Giving her milk gives her something exciting to wake up for. It will take a couple of nights to break the habit so be aware of that!

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differentnameforthis · 12/11/2013 06:36

And you know what...my dd (now 5) spent a large proportion of her life in her in pyjamas. When it became obvious that it was a battle I just stopped fighting it. Life was SO much easier. And yes, she went to child care in hers. I just put some clothes in her bag & they changed her (or not, depending on whatever). They weren't bothered by it at all.

She would wear the same pjs that she wore the night before & I would change her before bed in fresh pjs. She would happily wear shoes/socks because I let her wear her pjs.

I will admit that at first I was paranoid that everyone was judging me, but I soon learnt that this was who dd is, and I felt she should be free to wear what she wanted, as long as she was warm.

Once she started school it wasn't an issue. I started to explain to her well before that she would always need to wear a uniform & she happily does.

However, as soon as she is home, if we aren't going out, she is in her pjs (but to be fair, so am I). She also spends the weekend in pjs if we are not busy.

It is a battle I refuse to fight.

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differentnameforthis · 12/11/2013 06:42

she usually wants to wear a thin pair of leggings If she is walking, she will be warm, or even if wrapped in a blanket in the pram.

a Peppa pig t-shirt - nothing can go on top of this, so that Peppa is hidden Long sleeves under short! My girls do it all the time in winter. I am not sure about the UK (am in Oz) but it seems the done thing here & I have to buy larger tees to accommodate something underneath!

It sounds ridiculous but I feel I can't cave in on some of these things for an easy life, or where does it stop

It isn't about giving in, it is about knowing what is needed & what can compromised on. Like the tee, yes it is important she is warm, but you can compromise by explaining she needs to wear a long sleeve under it.

Some things are not to be compromised on, of course, like safety factors. But somethings you can bend the rules over.

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OrangePixie · 12/11/2013 06:52

Good God, by all means, go to the GP and cry all over him. Might get things moving.

My DD is the same age as yours. Getting her dressed is the hardest part of the day. I let her wear what the hell she likes and shove her coat and a blanket in the bottom of the pushchair, ready for deployment.

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mathanxiety · 12/11/2013 07:10

Your DD sounds very like my DD3, who was DC4.

She had a big enough bed that I could fit into it and when she woke (every night) I just climbed in and got on with trying to sleep. At least when she threw tantrums in the day I knew it wasn't from being up screaming all night. And I didn't feel as tantrummy either if I was only up once..

She ate enough to keep a sparrow going and her diet was extremely limited. Absolutely no fruits or veg, and many things she refused to eat on grounds that they were bitter Hmm.

She was incredibly persistent and almost impossible to distract. Once I sent her to her room for a timeout when she was being a complete pita over something I wouldn't give her, and surprise-surprise, she fell asleep, but when she emerged an hour or two later, she came downstairs and said, 'So can I have it now?' Tantrums lasted hours. Even when taking her home from the hospital as a newborn she screeched all the way, only stopped when the car stopped, and she let out a big sob. I couldn't take her anywhere in the car for about 1.5 years without risking an accident from distraction by the terrible crying. She reduced entire supermarkets to silence as we queued for the checkouts, purple in the face from crying.

It turned out she had allergies, including severe hay fever, but also food allergies.

She is grand now, aged 15. She has lovely friends. She sings beautifully (all that screeching must have developed her vocal chords). Her persistence and single mindedness are assets as she progresses through school -- she never leaves homework on the long finger, never gives up on maths, always studies for tests. She is incredibly sensitive to tone of voice but euphemistic phrases sometimes go completely over her head, which is weird, and she often needs to have irony explained to her. She developed asthma but it's under control. The hay fever is pretty much controlled by Clarityn. She watches what she eats. She can't eat dairy at all. The only thing that bothers me (and her too) is her sleepwalking.

Her three older siblings all think the sun shines forth from her rear end and always have, even though one of her favourite things to do when she was little was to go up to the TV and turn it off while they were watching, or turn the volume way up and then run screaming to me in the kitchen... She is the life and soul of the party at home but is quite shy in school.

I second the advice to give only water when she wakes.
Don't worry about developing bad sleep habits. Sleep with her and get at least some sleep. It's better for both of you than none.
Be as loving as you can be. Try to find some quiet time together in the day and catch her being sweet.
Pick your battles over clothing and shoes. You could try giving her a choice between two perfectly acceptable outfits.
Give a little pep talk when you're going out, explaining where you are going, how long you'll be and how you want her to be -- ask for a handshake and a 'deal' and keep this lighthearted. Don't linger looking at things that are not on your list.
Make sure she has something to snack on when you're out, and a drink of water.
Give a five minute warning and then a two minute warning when transitioning from one activity to another. Use hand signals instead of verbal communication. It's harder to 'talk to the hand'.
Talk about feelings, acknowledge whatever it is that she may be feeling. Tell her it's ok to have feelings and ask if she could sign her feelings to you or talk about them. Signing is great because it isn't loud.
Use the kitchen timer to signal time to do something. It's harder to argue with a timer than you.

I would get a referral to an allergist rather than a behavioural expert.

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SanityClause · 12/11/2013 07:11

She will wear a coat if she gets cold.

I used to take a coat to pick up DD2 from nursery, every day. She never wore it, but I felt like if I was carrying it, people would know it was her choice not to wear it, not that I was unconcerned with whether she was warm enough.

She was also a difficult child, and although I didn't get any kind of official professional help, I did consider it, and I chatted to an acquaintance who is a child psychotherapist. She said something to me that I think was very helpful. "All behaviour is for a reason." Your DD is angry or upset about something, you may never really find out what that is, but you must accept that she has those feelings, and has a right to them.

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mathanxiety · 12/11/2013 07:17

I used to occasionally do the sake sort of timeouts as MrsMook -- 'you can come down when you're feeling civil' - so no set time a la Jo Frost, and no apology required afterwards (or we would spend the whole day battling it out). When she came down I would ask her if she was ready to try again, and she usually was. I would smile and say I was glad and off she would trot to bother everyone.

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Ohyesiknowwhatyoumean · 12/11/2013 07:50

I had one of these - dd1 - she was so bad that my (now) exH seriously wanted to call SS and have her taken into care because he couldn't cope (beginning of the end of our relationship). She is now in her 20s and the most amazing young woman. With the benefit of hindsight, and having spoken to her about what she can remember of that time, I would agree with the 'pick your battles' suggestion. Children are not evil or trying to make our lives difficult and we NEED sleep. I went into DDs bed at night if she woke (interestingly her night terrors stopped when we moved house and she was in a totally new room).

My DDs teachers told me they had no worries about her succeeding in life as she would probably end up as PM if she decided that's what she wanted - or head of a big company - she's a much nicer person than that and currently is more likely to join Greenpeace and get herself arrested by the Russians as she wants to change the world and root out injustice!

I screwed up dealing with my dd in many ways - partly because I was trying to stop my exH getting more annoyed with her - he had a foul temper. We were not a partnership dealing with it, though his mum was a godsend and was my sanity check and ally. Do you feel your dh is your ally or are you trying to get your dd to behave better to placate him?

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intitgrand · 12/11/2013 08:03

I think if you could sort out the nights, everything else would follow.I would suggest loads and loads of fresh air and exercise so
(a) she works up a big appetite and eats plenty
(b) she is more likely to sleep well


I agree that your short term need is to get more sl;eep whatever that takes.

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intitgrand · 12/11/2013 08:07

Also forgot to say that my eldest was like this, but as soon as I stopped work o maternity leave with DS2 (and DS1 only went to nursery a couple of afternoons a week) his behaviour drastically improved.He was 2.7 so I don't know whether he was just growing out of it, orgoing to nursery 3 full days a week was the cause.

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potterpaint · 12/11/2013 08:15

Definitely definitely definitely let her wear what she wants... Just take a coat out with you and tell her to let you know when she needs it...

Equally don't bother about brushing hair!

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CoteDAzur · 12/11/2013 08:20

Stop night feeds. Forever. You can't go on like this. Get some ear plugs if necessary and give some out to the neighbors.

As others said, when she starts tantrumming you stick her in her room, not to return until she has calmed down.

No sugar or fizzy drinks in her diet. Lots of exercise.

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Annakin31 · 12/11/2013 09:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Annakin31 · 12/11/2013 09:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JuliaScurr · 12/11/2013 10:24

'choice of two' is a great idea - worked for dd - gives control but not overwhelming

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MerryMarigold · 12/11/2013 10:32

I haven't read this, but someone recommended it on another thread
How to calm a challenging child

My dd has been similar at times. She slept mostly in my bed until 5 years old. We have recently trained her to sleep all night in her own bed, and it took about a week and wasn't painful at all (no tantrums over it).

I think she HATES feeling controlled, so giving her some control and understanding, even at this age, will go a very long way.

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goldnsunsets · 12/11/2013 10:35

so sorry your in this horrible situation. nightmare.

i had very similar with ds, now nearly 4. went on a parenting course. i did the triple p positive parenting programme, you can also buy the books on line. it WILL get better. xxx

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mamamia19740 · 12/11/2013 18:32

I can totally sympathise with you, my DS was and is the same. I'm sorry I don't have any advice for you but was wondering. When she does sleep does she snore or cough?

I ask because my son has recently been diagnosed with sleep aponea and snoring and night coughing are big indicators of this in young children.
And my sons consultant has said the lack of sleep this causes can affect everything from behaviour to hormone production!
Snoring and night coughing are big indicators in young children.

It might be worth a visit to the GP if she does any of these.

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ceebie · 13/11/2013 10:44

I completely disagree with those saying to take a hard line with her.

I think you should try love bombing her for a few days. Google "Love bombing parenting". See what happens.

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Laura0806 · 13/11/2013 23:08

oh i have the same problem with my 29 month old son. He wakes constantly even though I have given up and put him into our bed. He only wants me and he plays up, is naughty and tantrums much of the day.He goes to nursery and is apparently angelic so I know it is for me but Im so exhausted I also know Im not managing it right. SO not very helpful but to let you know you're not alone and I think it will be a phase. My first child, whilst not as bad, had some severe and frequent tantrums but is now very sweet and well behaved x

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mathanxiety · 14/11/2013 03:55

OhyesIknowwhatyoumean -- ((())) to you; we may have had similar experiences - my exH was a man with no patience at all for small children, even those whose behaviour wasn't off the charts, and I already knew this by the time DD3 came along. His response to DD3 was shouting and slapping (and blaming me), and I did my utmost to prevent his anger from harming her.

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LovesBeingHereAgain · 14/11/2013 04:27

You poor thing (((hugs))) I feel for you. No/disturbed sleep is a killer (check tge time I know)

Goons go against tge majority here with the milk, get her one of those insulated non spill cups and leave it by her bed with milk evey night.

Could there be anything that's stopping her sleeping through? My dd has rhinitis which was diagnosed by accident. As soon as she started taking hers mess she slept through.

What does she say about waking in the night? Have you asked her tge next day? Does she have good language skills yet?

I agree re pick your battles, but also don't set yourself up for a fall. My ds (similar age) has just started sleeping through, but now dd has started waking again.

You need to get some sleep, work and driving say you have too! Do you get to bed earlier? Do you get lie ins at tge weekend?

It will pass, no really it will. It feels like zombie he'll right now, tge fig, tge headache will pass, soon she will be out all night or off to uni and then you can sleep. I know I plan too Smile

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rabbitlady · 14/11/2013 05:29

poor child.

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dozeydoris · 14/11/2013 06:15

I second putting a note through neighbour's door.

There is so much publicity about child abuse that you really don't want any interference over a complaint by them. Tell them that you have seen HV/ Dr ? the local GP/ Paediatrician and they have instructed you to let DD cry it out to break the waking at night habit . Or something along those lines so they know not to be concerned and that you are trying to fix the problem and it shouldn't go on indefinitely. And apologise profusely! Poor you, OP, surely all DCs tantrum at some point, I can't understand people giving you dirty looks.

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raisah · 14/11/2013 06:43

Go and see your GP, there maybe other reasons for her behaviour but there might not. You need a check up to see if you are ok because sleep deprivation can lead to other health probs.

Your post describes my life, my dd is nearly 3 and from the age of 10 months has never slept through. Her behaviour can be challenging if she is in one of her moods like your dd. I too am struggling at work due to the sheer exhaustion some days, I am on a performance monitoring programme but I havent explained why I am so tired.

I have managed by
Bringing her into my.bed as she sleeps longer stretches of 3/4 hrs.
Giving her my breast to suck on (not ideal but weaning her off has been a battle) she sucks for a few seconds & drifts off to sleep.
Giving her a choice of two items to wear/eat/read as she likes to be in control. If there aren't any choices then she can refuse so giving her a choice takes away her right to refuse iyswim.

People will stare & ignore them or embarrass them by asking 'were you going to help me? That usually sends them scurrying away like rats.

I will watch this thread with interest.

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