To ask you what to do because I can't cope with DD any more?

[Helpmydaughterisanightmare]

Name changed for this.

I have a DD, 30 months. She has always been what would charitably be described as "high needs" but now she is just becoming unmanageable.

She has never slept through the night. On a good night, she might be up once and then provided she is given milk, she might go back to sleep. On a bad night, she can be up 3/4/5/6/7 times.

Last night, she woke up at 1am. I gave her some milk, which she drank. She then decided she wanted me to sleep in her room (for context - I never do this!). I told her I wasn't going to, because I was tired, and needed to go to bed. She then screamed/tantrummed from 1.30am - 3.30am. There was literally nothing I could do to placate her so after checking she didn't have a temperature, didn't have a wet/dirty nappy, and didn't need any more milk, I left her to it, checking regularly to make sure she was ok, and putting her back in her bed.

At 3.30am the neighbours banged on the wall

I took her downstairs and she continued to scream hysterically, not sure why, but presumably because I wasn't sitting in her room with her. Eventually she calmed down and I took her back upstairs and put her in bed. She chatted to herself for a bit and then went to sleep.

This morning she woke up at 7am, miserable and cross. She then had a further tantrum of epic proportions, screaming and crying, refusing to get dressed.

In the end (after 45 minutes of trying to get her clothes on, her kicking, screaming and ripping them off) I had to go out to pick something up from the shops, so had to force her into the pushchair, in her pyjamas, sockless, shoeless and coatless. She screamed for a further 45 minutes. People were staring at us in the street.

I have been in tears twice today because I just can't cope with this any more. I have an older child too and it isn't fair on him, and I am failing at work because I am so tired I can't cope with that either. It is causing friction between me and DH.

She is supposed to have been referred to the behaviour clinic but no one has been in touch. I called them this morning and they said they would call me back - they haven't. I am so desperate and I don't know how I can get help.

[Simsim1]

Have you considered taking dd to see a cranial osteopath? Could help.

[tortoisesarefab]

Could your or dps parents have her overnight for a break? I honestly think that a nights sleep would do youthe world of good and give you the energy to deal with the tantrums. As for your ds, could you have a day out with him at the weekend and leave dd with your dp?

[HopLittleFroggiesHopSkipJump]

The looks might not always be judgy. I've been out with DD (only 13 months!) screaming her head off before, had tried carrying her and she bit and kicked me so put her back in the buggy where she screamed like a banshee, saw woman nearby giving me a 'disapproving' look, felt completely embarrassed but she then came over and said my son used to be like that she'll grow out of it.
I think when in a situation like that any look of sympathy looks judgemental!

[frumpet]

There will be many many mothers on here who feel your pain , i am one of them , especially with the clothes issue , DS1 was hyper sensitive about socks for about 4-5 years , from the age of 4 until 8 . He doesnt have any special needs , it was just one of his many bizzarre little foibles that made him who he is . I can laugh about it now , but when you are going through it , it is horrendous .
If it is any consolation , my friends DD who was a very intelligent child was an absolute blimming nightmare until she turned three , then she stopped tantrumming and became almost 'normal' and is a fantastic , caring , thoughful and humerous adult .
IT WILL GET BETTER ( honest)

[galwaygirl]

Was just going to suggest sainsburys, not in the UK anymore but they had peppa coats and fleece jumpers last year

[zatyaballerina]

Exhaustion is the worst. Dd (2yrs) rarely sleeps through, tbh she sleeps a lot better since I put her in the bed with us. I got so sick of getting up 15 times a night, having her climb the walls for hours from 2 in the morning and not being able to get back to sleep. If we left her there, she would get hysterical and could go on for hours. She needs to be held while she goes to sleep (only thing which works) and when we go to bed later she is fine because she wakes up a lot but cuddles in and goes back to sleep. Now she gets between 10-12 hours a night (from about 6 in 20 min segments) and is a much easier child.

I also have her walking at least four to five miles a day (at almost adult speed), plus as much running around, jumping, climbing as possible to burn her excessive energy and calm her. Without that, there is no sleep at all!!! No sugar, processed foods... she goes crazy.

As for the dress issue, try putting up two choices of trousers, tops, coats and ask which one she wants to wear. That focuses her choice on which one rather than yes or no. It may help if you can get her excited about her clothes by getting her to pick out her own in the shops in her favourite colours and really make a big deal about how gorgeous she looks in them.

All children are individual, some are very high energy and have a hard time relaxing into a sleep. Some children are very sensitive to sugar. A sleep deprived child may be so over tired that sleep is impossible.

Experiment. Anything that gets her sleeping (and by extension, you) is a good thing even if it sounds a bit over the top or nutty to others. Life will be easier when you've both regained your sanity with a good nights rest

[wigglesrock]

I have a daughter 2 months older than yours . I took all of her "summer" clothes out of her wardrobe a few weeks ago & stuck them out of way. She likes (understatement) to get dressed the minute she wakes up - she had 6 Asda long sleeved dresses to chose from. She can't stand wearing trousers or skirts

Would a body warmer be any easier? Peppa Pig wellies or trainers?

[Kendodd]

I think at this point you have to put YOUR needs first.I think the first thing I would need if I were you is at least one good night sleep. Can you leave the children with your husband one (or two) nights and go and stay with somebody just so that you can catch up on some proper rest? Come back and face the problems then.

[Helpmydaughterisanightmare]

Peppa hoodies: will be on order shortly! Thanks for the links. I like the idea of taking her shopping too.

Unfortunately if I leave her with anyone it just makes her twice as bad at night/the following day. It's like she is determined to have me exclusively?

I don't think DH will have her in our bed. I also think that if we start that we will never see the end of it (well, not for a year or more, and I don't know if I can have her kicking me all night as well as all day). Saving up and paying for a sleep clinic is definitely an option, unfortunately she has more stamina than we do, so I am really struggling to see how anything short of leaving her to cry it out is going to work (and even then, the neighbours obviously aren't happy with it hence the banging on the wall)

She's not like a normal child where the tantrum stops after 10 minutes -she can easily tantrum for 2 - 3 hours if the mood takes her (she did 90 minutes the other night because she didn't like the particular slice of malt loaf I gave her for tea)

Other flash points are meals (she will only reliably eat cereal, yogurts, malt loaf, fruit and crisps - anything else is pushed away as "yuck"); sharing any sort of toy (can't take my eyes off her for a second around other children - she has bitten her brother and drawn blood on two previous occasions)

Written down it sounds like normal toddler things but she is so much more extreme than that.

[Dahlen]

I'm so sorry you're feeling so low about this. There is nothing like a recalcitrant child to drive even the most patient parent mad.

I know it feels like just another thing that's being done the hard way rather than the easy way, but I think you need to prioritise getting the behavioural assessment because the sorts of solutions you'll need to help you manage your DD more effectively will vary enormously depending on what's underlying her behaviour.

Good luck with it all and lots of sympathy.

[bebanjo]

You know, my DD always been a bit of a drama queen with her cloths. And to be honest I could never be bothered.
Let her where what ever she likes, take a coat a blanket ect and when she gets cold she will tell you and you can let her put the coat on.
Even now DD is 7 she came down today with a summer dress on, told her to go to the top of the garden to see if she was warm enufe, she went back to get changed. Pick your battles.

[TheSmallPrint]

T-shirts can easily go over long sleeved t shirts and tights under leggings? I know this isn't the main issue but little things may help take the edge off it.

You have my sympathies, DS2 is a bad sleeper (6yo and rarely sleeps through) and can be very demonstrative particularly when tired.

[homeaway]

Poor you, firstly I would do whatever it takes to get some sleep, this is a phase and if you do bring in to your bed and you are ok with this , don't worry about it. I don't know any 18 year olds who still sleep in their parents beds :).
My dd was and still is very strong willed, what helped with her was her perception that she had a choice . If she had to get dressed I would give her a choice of tops and trousers, skirts etc.. and then she could chose if her socks went on first or knickers, iyswim. Like others i had to put away all summer clothes in winter.

During the day she had 2 or 3 warnings for bad behaviour ( i can't remember ) but if she carried on doing what she was told not to do then there was a consequence which had been explained clearly before hand.

Try and spend some time outside every day if you can, park, walks etc this tires them out and the fresh air makes them sleep at night.

I hope things get better op.

[BlackeyedSusan]

try the gp and ask to be referred to a peadiatrician. pop over to special needs children board and ask over there.

[MrsOakenshield]

30 months, that's, what, 2 and a half (I can't understand months after 18) - are you sure she's not teething? I was surprised at how long DD teethed for, pretty much until she was 3. Prob wouldn't explain it all but maybe some of it?

[estya]

I really feel for you because I've been there too.
My dd has a very strong mind and I struggled while I felt I was supposed to be in charge. I've now decided that, although it's the done thing for toddlers to be seen to be obeying the grown-ups, that isn't going to work in our house.
We have rules that can't be broken but after that I'll respect her requests as If they were sensible suggestions and, as I would if she was an adult, try and suggest alternatives that mean she doesn't loose face or feel like I won at her expense.
eg, peppa t shirt. I'd say 'yes, poor peppa doesn't want to be stuck inside a hoodie, she won't be able to see where she's going. ok peppa, how can we make you feel warm while you are looking out all day, how about 2 long sleeve tops under you peppa? Will that do. Perhaps when your face gets cold you can ask dd to warm you up with her coat etc etc.

I think toddlers push for reassurance that they are important/loved/etc. They do these things to test your reaction in the save way as an insecure person looks for proof of infidelity. The more you try to put them in their place the more they'll need reassurance that their needs are important to you.

[Brucietheshark]

Our DS doesn't sleep. I went to a sleep clinic type team not expecting them to come up with much, but in fact they have.

Suggestions include:
-Weighted blanket
-Picture of mummy by bed
-White noise CD playing continuously (we put it on after he's asleep)
-Visual timetable shown and explained before bedtime of what's happening the next day (he has ASD so for him this is pretty basic)
-Very consistent bedtime routine that lasts no longer than 45 mins and is always at exactly the same time
-The standard 'put them back in bed' routine if they get out, as often as it takes
-Disturbing him when we go up to bed - we give him a nudge and extra tucking in at about 10-11pm so that he stirs but doesn't wake (I was sceptical but this seems to actually reduce night wakings)

He has also been prescribed melatonin which is great for bedtime but obviously not something you can launch into.

I really feel for you as this sounds so trying. I would keep harassing the behaviour clinic, with a trip to the GP and/or HV thrown in until somebody offers you some support.

[Hullygully]

Sleep: put a mattress on the floor in your bedroom next to your side of the bed where she can sleep if she wants to. Most children this age want to sleep at least in the same room as their parents, it's not worth fighting. Tell her it's there and she's welcome to come in during the night and sleep there. She may not even wake you up then...

[SolomanDaisy]

Do anything it takes for you both to get more sleep. My DS is a similar age and is so much stroppier when he's tired. Honestly, try cosleeping for a little while, if it doesn't help you can stop. I think at this age you have to try and ignore any critical looks due to screaming, lack of shoes etc. Anyone with any sense will be sympathetic and realise you haven't deliberately made your child cold.

[Brucietheshark]

Oh yes and bedtime not too early.

Yy Hully - a friend had a total non sleeper who literally started sleeping through the same night they put a mattress for her in their room. My friend was kicking herself she didn't try it sooner as her DD was about 4 iirc!

[ceebie]

It's an impossible dilemma for parents - you feel like if you back down, where will it end, and they will completely steam-roller you forever, and you will never get control back. You have tried that approach and it's making life impossibly difficult for you (and for her). I really think it is worthwhile just giving in to her for a while to see if that improves your lives. I actually find that really hard to do myself but when my DD goes through phases of being ridiculously stubborn, I think hard about what is completely non-negotiable and give in on everything else. It's worth a try. I don't think it will turn her into a spoilt brat because I think that once the situation improves, you will be able to introduce some discipline again. It's exhausting battling all the time and completely spoils your relationship with your DD. Try is for a while and see whether it leads to her behabiour worsening or improving.

[ovenbun]

wow, what a difficult night, poor you!
I would ring the behaviour clinic daily, and also perhaps ask if your hv could visit in the meantime to think about strategies that could help you both..


I don't know what you think about any of these, but I will list a few things you could try...Not in a judgy way, I think its just worth having a few things up your sleeve to help.

Could you sit down with DH and talk about how difficult things are, then perhaps write down 2 areas you are going to tackle, together for the next fortnight...perhaps night times and dressing for outside would be two good ones? Having a shared agreement on exactly what you are going to do each time (time out/sticker chart/sleeping in dds room etc) might help. Then stick to the plan...however difficult ...for example it may mean you cant do any errands because dd wont put the right clothes on at first...your life may feel like it is coming to a standstill...but it will be worth it when you can reap the rewards. yopu could also speak with your older child and explain whaty will be happening over the next 2 weeks, perhaps plan an activity you can take him out to enjoy while dd is with dh one day?


In childcare are there any things they use that work well with dd? What do thet use as discipline and rewards? Meet with her leader and together you could set some boundaries that they will work on with her so you can be consistent in both settings.

Positive touch/massage....its the last thing you feel like doing if they are tantrumming that day but positive touch releases oxytocin helping calm you both for the rest of the day not just while you are doing it...it might be a nice thing to do at bedtime...or at times that are usually tricky in the day...it could be as simple as just tracing your fingers on her hands and arms, or giving her a little foot rub...it reinforces your bond and helps children feel secure...it's saying 'i love you' with your hands...and my favourite thing about it is it's free :) When dd is tantrumming her cortisol levels are rising, and she is settling herself up for a day of 'fight or flight'...it sounds in dds case that her brain usually switches to fight...you can reduce the levels of this stress hormone with positive touch and reassurance.

as always lots of praise for anything done well is good.



To tackle the innapropriate dress:

1. Peppa pig always wears her coat/hat/welly boots as appropriate...you could watch an episode with your daughter online/dvd where peppa pig is getting ready for a winters day/wet day as you get ready in the morning.

1. Buy (with your dd if possible) a peppa pig (or colour or character she really likes) hat or badge or stickers or coat some way that can be on the outside, may save you both some upset. Is there a blanket you could tuck over her in the pushchair if she keeps ripping clothes off?

1. take a photo of dd in her 'outside clothes' print it out and mount on pretty paper/card..stick it on the back of the door..talk to dd 'this is you looking so pretty and warm in your outside clothes, everytime we go out you must wear these clothes'...set challenges or games..'can you find all the things you are wearing in the picture?' 'can you put your hat on yourself? make a big big fuss if she does it right...you could get her to phone daddy to tell him how pleased you are, or have a sticker on a chart...when out and about comment and ask dd about other peoples clothing..'look that man has his coat on, what a good boy.' feels very silly but children often love this.

1. plan fun outings, park, swimming pr going to have a cake at the cafe etc...if she doesnt wear the right clothes....she doesnt get to go. word this to her in a positive way..'when you have all your outside clothes on like the photo we can go to...'

hope those help, you will get through this and start enjoying your relationship again in time...the toddler years are so tough!

oven xxxx

[Tulip26]

A friend is going through a very similar problem at the moment with a child of exact same age. Doctor recommended buying a bike, it's meant to use more energy than most other toys such as a scooter, etc.

Have you tried keeping a food diary to see if there's a pattern between her behaviour and certain foods?

[overmydeadbody]

Sounds very difficult, I hoipe you get some support and help soon.

I would say pick your battles, as much as possible just make your life easier. She wants the other slice of malt loaf? Give it to her. She wants Peppa pig t shirt to show, let her wear it over her coat or hoodie. Give ehr the food she likes (within reason), she wants you to sleep with her at night, get into bed with heruntil she falls asleep, then leave her.

Try to stop her getting to the stage where she is tantruming, if you can, by just picking your battles.

Good luck. She will grow out of it.