To ask you what to do because I can't cope with DD any more?

[Helpmydaughterisanightmare]

Name changed for this.

I have a DD, 30 months. She has always been what would charitably be described as "high needs" but now she is just becoming unmanageable.

She has never slept through the night. On a good night, she might be up once and then provided she is given milk, she might go back to sleep. On a bad night, she can be up 3/4/5/6/7 times.

Last night, she woke up at 1am. I gave her some milk, which she drank. She then decided she wanted me to sleep in her room (for context - I never do this!). I told her I wasn't going to, because I was tired, and needed to go to bed. She then screamed/tantrummed from 1.30am - 3.30am. There was literally nothing I could do to placate her so after checking she didn't have a temperature, didn't have a wet/dirty nappy, and didn't need any more milk, I left her to it, checking regularly to make sure she was ok, and putting her back in her bed.

At 3.30am the neighbours banged on the wall

I took her downstairs and she continued to scream hysterically, not sure why, but presumably because I wasn't sitting in her room with her. Eventually she calmed down and I took her back upstairs and put her in bed. She chatted to herself for a bit and then went to sleep.

This morning she woke up at 7am, miserable and cross. She then had a further tantrum of epic proportions, screaming and crying, refusing to get dressed.

In the end (after 45 minutes of trying to get her clothes on, her kicking, screaming and ripping them off) I had to go out to pick something up from the shops, so had to force her into the pushchair, in her pyjamas, sockless, shoeless and coatless. She screamed for a further 45 minutes. People were staring at us in the street.

I have been in tears twice today because I just can't cope with this any more. I have an older child too and it isn't fair on him, and I am failing at work because I am so tired I can't cope with that either. It is causing friction between me and DH.

She is supposed to have been referred to the behaviour clinic but no one has been in touch. I called them this morning and they said they would call me back - they haven't. I am so desperate and I don't know how I can get help.

[IAlwaysThought]

Well, I had to take my DS out without a hat or coat when he was 3'ish when it was -25 . I was more worried about his ears falling off than the very judgey looks.

OP, I don't really have any advice other than you shouldn't worry about what other people think. It does sound quite extreme and I think you are right to get help. It sometimes hard to see the wood for the trees when you are knackered and frustrated.

I think going to the doctors and having a cry might be a good plan

Hope you get some sleep tonight. It might be best if your DH dealt with your DH tonight. You are not going to be any use to anyone if you get too tired and stressed out. If your DD freaks out then so be it.

[ceebie]

I wonder if she could be insecure? I wonder if smothering her with love could make a difference?

[Toocold]

Your dd sounds like my sister when she was little, (I am seven years older) my used to put her in the bath to calm her down, not always practical I know!. My son was like that about clothes, could you put a longer top and a vest under the t-shirt, then Peppa is on show. Your dd sounds very bright and it could be frustration. What have nursery said?

Sometimes its best to pick your battles and she won't be sleeping in your room when she is 16, do what you need to do for an easier life, within reason. I hope you sort it all out.

[Toocold]

my mum used to put her in the bath, really must read before I post!

[IHeartKingThistle]

You are doing the right thing by not giving in to her though. Not easy at the time but it does pay off!

[Toocold]

I also meant to say, everything with children is just a phase, (unless underlying cause) and whilst it feels like forever at the time, it will pass.

[ChristmasCareeristBitchNigel]

Just a small suggestion - try planning what you know she wants to do actually into your routine - take control of it yourself, then it doesn't feel as if you're "giving in". So instead of giving her something to wear that will cause a flashpoint and then being determined not to been seen to give in, chose something you know she will want to wear (within seasonal appropriateness) which will hopefully avoid a fuss.

I find that if the day starts with a tantrum, the rest of it will follow suit

[intitgrand]

She is waking up because you reward her when she does, by giving her milk!! I am sure I could train myself to wake up every night if DH popped downstairs and made me a hot chocolate whenever I did.
Stuff the neighbour and let your DD do her worst.I bet within a week she will be sleeping through

[Helpmydaughterisanightmare]

Thank you so much for all your kind words

So, in childcare they let her do whatever she likes as far as I can tell. She throws herself on the floor kicking and screaming when we arrive. The staff and other kids stare at us. Bizarrely (given the issues above with Peppa) she won't take her hat and coat off all day. They allow this because it's too hard for them to do otherwise so she ends up hot, cross and dehydrated (she doesn't drink that well).

I have just had a 30 minute battle with her about a nappy change. She is semi-potty trained, in a pull up, good with wees but won't poo on the toilet. She did a poo in her pull up a little while ago but despite the fact it obviously smelt and was starting to get sore, wouldn't let me change it. I had to pin her with my leg (gently obviously!) and take it off and then try to clean her before she got poo everywhere. All the time she was kicking, rolling and screaming. She banged her head on the skirting board trying to get away. She is like a wild animal

I could go on. Literally everything is hard. I have tried to pick my battles with her, but she fights against simple basics like dressing and toileting. Now I have a splitting headache and it's just wearing me down.

[OHforDUCKScake]

Have you ruled out food intolerances/allergies?

My 2.5 year old wakes 84725295 times a night because of this.

[Pancakeflipper]

So did my DS2.

[MrsShortfuse]

You poor thing OP, I could have written that myself a few years back. I got advice at the time from a now-retired GP of the 'no nonsense old school' type who was a mother and grandmother several times over. She said that in the vast majority of cases there is nothing physically wrong and that everything you describe is within the realms of normal for that age. She told me to stop looking for complex theories and that tough love is what's needed - as Intitgrand says, stop the 'rewarding' with milk. Just let her scream and keep putting her back in her bed with no fuss, no discussion and no milk. (Maybe move the bed away from neighbour's wall?) You should see an improvement with the sleep within a week. And this phase will be over within a few months. In the daytime, just ignore as much as possible.

All easier said than done I know. Good luck.

[ExcuseTypos]

Gosh what hard work.

Until you get your referal, I would definitely try to rule out exhaustion as causing of her behaviour during the day.

From age 2-3 we put a mattress next to our bed, and dd2 slept in our room. Otherwise she was waking numerous times. From the day she slept in our room, she didn't wake once in the night. You said your DH wouldn't like her in the bed but maybe the mattress on the floor in your room, is a compromise. If you try it, and her behaviour doesn't change, then at least you know it's not a sleep issue.

[monicalewinski]

I agree with MrsShortfuse a couple of posts up about the night issues.

Also, please go to the doctor about yourself - you must be exhausted. If you cry, so what? I think you need to look after yourself aswell.

[BratinghamPalace]

We had a NIGHTMARE year or two with number two. She is now an articulate bundle of joy. Looking back I wish I had handled it differently and I wish I had a less strict approach and a more mummy in charge and let's have a nice day, matter of fact approach. I got great advise half way through. GIVE IN. She is likely frustrated and afraid. Their tantrums frighten the life out of them it seems. She wants Peppa Pig? Let her! Go out in PP, bring the coat, blanket with you. Once outside, oh look, Peppa is cold. Are you cold Peppa? DD here you go, a blanket for Peppa, she said she is cold. Getting dressed - give her two choices but two that work for you. Eg - time to get dressed, will mama dress you or will you dress yourself? Will you wear this dress or that dress? Etc. When melting down, I know you are upset, I know you are mad, I understand. Validate, validate, validate. And for your sake and everyone else in the house, hop into the bed with her. Or mattresses on the floor sounds great.
And carve out an hour or so every so often for the other child. And include him in the fact that this is a tough age, it will pass and someday you will all look back and say, wow remember how hard that was. We do. Good luck. I had some of the bleakest moments of my life. An important thing to remember is this not make or break for your future with this child. It is developmental stage.

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

(Hugs)

Yes, go and see an HV.

I also second melatonin, has been amazing for my nephew's sleep disorder.

[LadyRabbit]

Everything BratinghamPalace said. We have turned a massive corner with DS (3). I'm surprised the nursery aren't able to reduce the tantrums though. Sounds like she is both intelligent but struggling to fully express herself and is probably a more needy child than your DS. Are you not taking her into your bed because you don't want to or DH doesn't want to? Frankly it sounds like you're getting the brunt of the lack of sleep - I'd do what works for YOU so that you can juggle work and two kids. Really feel for you, hope things improve .

[waterrat]

I agree about stopping milk at night - and a decision either she can come and sleep in your room or you go the other path and get a sleep consultant - who will hand hold you through getting her to stop waking - you just give no attention just resettle and leave room - and it will work ...

Both are valid both will work - perhaps worth trying her in your room as you are already up half the night anyway - if it doesn't work do the get tough plan!

It must be exhausting poor you - I would go to your gp an demand support .....

[MrsMook]

Another who has suffered repeated night wakings due to milk allergy. When DS was taken off his allergens, it was like a switch for his sleep and he immediately started sleeping through.

Pick your battles. I have a warm layers refuser a few months older. I think about why he needs a coat- because he will get cold. I can waste our time and energy on arguing over a coat, or I can let him get cold. I have a coat with us. It is no issue. If he conceeds that he is cold, he's more likely to accept the coat without fuss because there's a clear reason- it will make him warm. I doubt he remembers wearing warm clothes last winter, so from his experience, he's been fine in his t-shirt all summer and now the goal posts are changing.

He insisted on walking out of the children's centre welly-less today and walking 3m to the car barefoot. As I was putting DS2 in the car (which was why I couldn't carry him if he tantrumed) he realised he had cold wet feet which was unpleasant and put his wellies on himself. No one lost. He learnt. Putting the wellies on of his own accord is better for the future than me forcing and "winning" over him.

[beatricequimby]

I really feel for you.

My dd (1) was hard work as a toddler. She was a nightmare over clothes and nothing I tried made any difference, buying the sort of clothes she liked, giving her choices etc. She was going to have a tantrum no matter what. She could keep up an outdoor public tantrum for at least 45 mins of hysterical screaming and I have loads of memories of feeling humiliated. A woman once told me she was going to call social services when I ignored a tantrum over a small piece of cake.

I carried on being tough over certain things that I felt were non-negotiable eg we have to go out now to pick up dc1 from nursery. I also used to make her wear a coat in the rain like you but I don't know whether I was right to insist on that or not. It certainly led to a lot of screaming.

For us dd grew up of it very suddenly a few months after she turned 3. I think acquiring more language helped, although her speech wasn't delayed. I just realised at the end of the summer that she was much easier and that I wasn't dreading certain parts of the day anymore. She is now a very easy going 7 year-old.

I think you need some time to yourself and a referral to the behaviour clinic. Hopefully she will grow out of it but knowing you have the referral might make you feel better. I would go to the GP and ask them for a referral.

[paxtecum]

My friend fosters for Barnados. They are always kids with behaviour problems that LA foster carers can't cope with.
The first thing they do is cut ALL crap out of the diet.

It makes an amazing difference.

As already said by others - it could be food intolerance too.

Best wishes to you

[Retroformica]

Ring your HV and ask her to follow the clinic up. Explain you are getting no joy and are desperate.

Secondly 2.5 is the most difficult age I've found. My frustrated little whirlwind (so much hard work) is now a sensible caring articulate imaginative and creative 6 year old. Really blossomed!

Personally I think the daytime tantrums/poor behaviour are directly linked to poor nighttime sleep. I recon you will most likely resolve the daytime issues once she gets a proper nights sleep. My kids day time behaviour tends to be linked to how well they have slept.

Lastly when she does manage more night time sleep, if the food/clothes/hurting/tantrum sensitivity/control issues don't improve it might be worth pushing to see a child psychologist to see if she needs a statement to gain extra support.

[Brucietheshark]

Your childcare doesn't sound great either tbh. They should be alerting YOU to issues and seeking support within their setting too (though this rarely happens).

I would ask for a meeting and tell them you're not happy that she is getting overheated and not drinking enough and that you all need to work together to sort out potty training properly. If you want her coat off when it's too hot, they need to work out a way to make it happen, tantrums or no.

[Retroformica]

Also books. Look on amazon. There is some great advice out there.