AIBU to think NCT classes are a waste of time & money?

[LittlePeaPod]

Am I been unreasonable to think NCT classes are a waste of time and money after only attending the first session and the only reason I should go back is to get to know the other new mums to be because they all seem like a really nice bunch of ladies.

Attended our first NCT session last night and I have to say I was really disappointed in the class. The two and a half hour session was boring and verging on condescending. The activities can only be compared to those crappy training activities you get in crappy work based training sessions. The MW is clearly pro natural birth with no intervention what's so ever including any form of pain relief and her method of trying to scare the new mums into following her path was crap IMHO. For example she proclaimed swaddling new borns has been linked to cot deaths! When I asked her to give us some facts so we could understand what exactly the risk associated to swaddling is, she couldn't. [Hmm] The breast feeding guilt trip started last night please don't got me wrong i understand the benefits of breast feeding a new born She clearly hasn't considered that there may be mums in the group that will struggle with breast feeding and they way she went on anyone that does struggle will feel like a failure and like they are letting their baby down this goes for anything other than a VB with no pain relief too

I am a logical person and it frustrated me that the MW didn't seem able to back her statements up with actual facts. She just blubbed scary shit and there was no opportunity for real discussion. Either she is not used to people asking questions or she was just trying to frighten us into following the path that she did when she had her children. So much for giving new mums to be the relevant unbiased information so we can prepare for the birth / post birth including what could go wrong and god forbid anything does go wrong we can at least be informed so we can make decisions quickly. If last nights session is a sign of things to come I think the MW is going to get a shock because I won't be able to sit there and just nod!

I understand at 29 weeks pregnant I can be a bit unreasonable sometimes. So please ladies AIBU?

[difficultpickle]

I did the classes at the hospital and signed up for the NCT class. The classes at hospital were run by my midwife who was utterly useless and would go on about buying expensive cots and prams. Another mum to be asked a question of what she needed to do re childseat when beign collected from hospital by taxi after she had given birth. The midwife said she couldn't answer that question as she had never come across prospective parents who didn't have their own car. When ds was born prem and poorly she visited us in SCBU and said that she could strike us off her visiting list as "ds won't be going home anytime soon"

Contrast the NCT. I missed the classes as ds was 7 weeks prem and the class was due to start the week after he was born. I then got an invite to a coffee morning with the group that I should have been in. They were my life line and sometimes the only people I saw each week. Ds was poorly and I couldn't do lots of normal things with him. Seeing those mums each week kept me going through some really horrible months. Over 9 years on they are still some of my best friends.

[outragedofsuburbia]

ah right well it should only take a few mins in my experience.

I really would urge you to complain if you are not happy. I hear some outrageous things on hear about practitioners (not me I hope!) and some I strongly suspect are not true or embellished (not yours!) but nothing will be done unless people complain.

[LittlePeaPod]

Outrage I will. It was bad, really bad.

[TheFabulousIdiot]

YABU to call it a breastfeeding guilt trip. Of course they should be talking to people about breastfeeding and how to get help if not going well.

My NCT class covered what happens in a C-section and all the different drugs you can have with clear explanations about the effects of those drugs.

What I found a bit dull was the being led by the nose as if I had never read anything about being pregnant and having a baby.

nice people though and invaluable once you have given birth and need support.

"Seriously, surely not all babies hate cots/Moses baskets that much?"

I think the hardest thing to teach couples when they have a baby is that there will be a lot of sleep deprivation. Having a baby isn't a walk in the park, it's long hours of un-broken sleep, lots of crying, lots of holding your baby... it surprises me that so many people seem to walk into parenthood without realising this.

On the other hand you may be lucky and get a bay that sleeps through the night from the start, just don't expect it to stay like that.

[ksrwr]

yes and no, my class experience was very similar to yours, but the people i met through the course were invaluable.
we bonded through a shared scepticism of the course leaders views on natural/home birth. and we relied on each other so heavily in those first few months. so yes and no. sorry, not much help.

[spritesoright]

"put the baby on your tummy and they'll find their own way" hardy har har. I remember being told something similar at our NCT breastfeeding class (along with some video where the baby has their nose tickled and eagerly takes the awaiting nipple).
In reality the first latch consisted of jarring baby out of a semi-coma (induced by lack of milk) to the point where she screamed and then jamming my boob into her mouth - coached by the lovely nursing midwife whose approach in fact worked!
The NCT activity I look back bitterly on is the 'why is baby crying?' one where you pass along a baby-like doll and try to guess why it's crying then propose a solution.
'baby is feeling lonely so I will pick it up' (and it will stop crying presumably).
The idea that I could come up with neat little 'solutions' to DD's crying was quickly shattered when I spent three months realising that she cried either because she was hungry or tired but mostly for no seeming reason at all and I would just have to ride it out and try to cope with the screaming baby in my ear through endless walk and jiggle sessions.
Ah, good times.
The support network you can get through NCT is very useful but a friend developed a similar one through mumsnet local. Similarly there were about 100 people at our hospital antenatal classes so very little chance of bonding.

[LittlePeaPod]

The NCT activity I look back bitterly on is the 'why is baby crying?' one where you pass along a baby-like doll and try to guess why it's crying then propose a solution.

Oh god no, that sounds like my idea of hell. Seriously we are not children but grown adults.. FFS, I hope we don't get this. If all their activities are that crap and as crap as the ones we endured last night then I am going to really struggle.

I will however stick a it for the network support. Everyone seems to be agreed on that point.

[TokenGirl1]

I found my NCT class pretty informative and I felt armed with information so that I could make an informed decision.

Neither the NCT or the NHS classes provided any info on bottle feeding/sterilising which, as far as I was concerned wasn't a problem as I wanted bf. I hit a sticking point though when my prem baby couldn't bf and I had to express and top up with formula. Boy did I feel guilty thanks to the government policy of pushing bf.

My NCT instructor was very realistic but her boss who sat in the class was almost throttled by me when I was getting panicky about the birth and she said that she knew a fantastic form of pain relief. I was all excited thinking that this was the answer to all my prayers. Her form of pain relief was "tender, loving care". If looks could kill, she'd have been a goner. It turns out it was 2 days before I gave birth almost four weeks before due date so I think it was mother nature preparing me with the sudden feeling of panic. Dp turned up at the last NCT class by himself to tell everyone dd had already arrived!

[GreenShadow]

I've felt for a long time that the NCT needs to sort out a more structured approach to it's teaching. There needs to be more consistency and guidelines about what is to be taught. There should also be an opportunity for feedback to their Head Office so they are aware what is being taught by their representatives.

I had excellent, factual clasees covering EVERYTHING about delivery, including all manner of assisted. It offered exactly what we wanted. All the dads continued attending and also got a lot out of it.

On my recommendation, my sister signed up for classes where she lived and experienced much what several other posters here have reported - very one-sided teaching but also not focusing so much on fact as 'feelings'. None of the class found it worth the money and the dads all stopped attending within a week or two.

I have been a long-time member and supporter of the NCT, but realise that changes have to be made to their teaching program.

[bigkidsdidit]

Both of mine have liked their baskets, by the way!

[LittlePeaPod]

GreenShadow I am surprised that an organisation of this size, heritage and experience doesn't have some sort of structured approach and all facilitators seem to be left to their own devices. I understand that autonomy in this sort of environment is important but surely the objectives and approach can be standardised and therefore measured in terms of success and appropriateness etc. They could then compare the facilitators / courses so those with additional training needs can be supported by the NCT to help them improve their courses.

[LittlePeaPod]

Thanks for sharing that bigkids

[TheFabulousIdiot]

Also... I think that you really do need to not show your feelings in the class. I remember being a bit like this, really quite annoyed and incredulous about the whole thing. It actually made me look like a bit of a twat and I soon deided to just join in with the fun of it all and concentrate on getting the bits I really needed from the course.

Luckily for me I decided on this course of action on the day that they handed the doll around and did the 'why is it crying' thing, followed by how to bath it and how to put on a nappy.

The reality is that when the real live baby came, it was a lot more slippy and covered in poo than the doll and I was actually pretty glad they had gone through those basics.

[hattyyellow]

As others have said, it does seem to vary hugely in use as a course as to what your instructor is like and what the other couples are like.

I found it next to useless, except for making me feel I had failed when I had to have my twins by section, under a GA. It was so totally the opposite of what our instructor (mother of 3, all natural, pain relief births) had waxed on about. I found it really hard going back to the group afterwards as we had a "birth story sharing session" and mine was "Umm, they knocked me out and I woke up with two babies..".

I think if you live in a big town it's probably more use as well? Our group covered quite a large rural area and realistically it was quite a drive to see a lot of the mums, who I hadn't massively bonded with anyway. We just didn't have a lot in common as a group and having babies didn't change that. We were all professional women, but that didn't necessarily mean we would have anything else in common.

I think you can form the same social networks by getting out to big toddler groups and talking to the other bleary eyed mums holding new borns.

Friends do talk of their NCT friends with real warmth though, so I think it's totally luck whether you get a group you click with and stay in touch with. I

[GreenShadow]

Completely agree LittlePeaPod.

My children are older now and I'm no longer involved, but find it sad that an organisation which can do so much good (past campaigning has resulted in fathers in the delivery suite etc as well as peer-to-peer support) seems to be gaining such a bad reputation (just look at Kirsty Allsopps comments).

[TheFabulousIdiot]

Oh and then provide feedback later. They will give you the opportunity to do it on paper.

[Snowsquonk]

Cost of NCT courses:

some people pay just 10% of the course price, there are other reductions of up to 80% of the cost for others.

Overheads - facilitator is paid only for the time she spends in front of the group, venue costs, overheard (booking infrastructure), refreshments, handouts, consumables (pens, paper etc) and a contribution to the costs of running the charity (paying for developing resources for parents, training for practitioners, wider work of NCT from campaigning to working with parents with particular needs - those in prison, asylum seekers etc)

The cost of a course is comparable to other local services - so in London the cost may be around £300 for a course of about 18 hours which works out at £8.30 per hour per person (based on a couple attending) Where I am the cost is £151 for a 16 hour course which is £4.71 per hour and you would pay more for most baby classes and you can't get a yoga class for that I can tell you!

If you don't like the approach of your practitioner, and don't feel able to speak to her about apparent bias or inaccurate information (she is correct that swaddling needs to be approached with some sensible caution - both because of overheating and because of potential aggravation of hip problems) - please call head office on 0300 330 0700 select option 4 and speak to the enquiries person who will be able to take all the details and pass it onto the complaints manager. Or you can email the CEO - [email protected]

I will admit to a bias - I've been an NCT volunteer since getting involved in the branch saved my sanity when I was living in a new area with a new baby and a toddler - so I am proud to be an NCT volunteer, proud of our courses , proud of our branch of volunteers who run a weekly Bumps & Babies group supporting local parents, proud of our fabulous nearly new sales

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Yes, I know lots of the course revenue goes towards the NCT charity as a whole, their wider campaigning work (and research ?) for example.
I think they should mention this slightly more during the course at some point, and the improvements in care which have been achieved - such as fathers at the birth if that's helpful, and lots of other improvements over the years.
Some of the NCT folk on here sound slightly defensive - which is fair enough to defend something you're proud of and involved in - but I think there's lots of good feedback here for improving things further which those with some involvement in the organisation (as I've had a little too eg.as post-natal supporter) should welcome

[LittlePeaPod]

GreenShadow I haven't seen the Kirsty Allsopp comments. I will research and have a look. It is such a shame the organisation is developing a bad reputation. Prior to attending the session I had heard some awful things about NCT been biased and out of date etc. But I went with an open mind I tend to make my own decisions on things.

TheFabulous I certainly would never be rude or a twat just for the sake of it. However, what I cant and wont do is sit there and not ask question to understand the facilitators points. If I just accept the status quo then I may as well not attend. To be fair the group doesn't seem to be full of wall flowers. I don't think I will be the only one asking questions. Also, I am sceptical that the paper feedback forms will go any further than the facilitator. Even if they do, how seriously is the feedback taken and does the feedback really influence how the courses are run in the future! I am not convinced.

Hatty sorry to hear about your experience. That was just pants.

[HardFacedCareeristBitchNigel]

We looked at NCT, then I read the price and thought "no thanks". We went to one NHS antenatal class (about postnatal care, it was shit) and that was it.

I still managed to give birth to a perfectly healthy baby and have sucessfully managed to keep her alive for the past 3.8 years so reckon not going has not been too much of a loss.

I don't have any "Mummy Friends". The thought makes me want to yack. I do have plenty of friends that are Mums but the thought of being shoved together with people that have nothing more in common with me than recent procreation ? No, ta. Can't think of anything worse than endless baby talk, which is probably why I never went to any vomitworthy Baby Groups.

[LittlePeaPod]

Snow I have no issue with the cost. I am happy to pay but if last nights course is standard then I must say that I can't see what value I am getting out NCT other than meeting other new mums to be. I don't mind giving charity donations but the NCT also advertises/implies DH and I will gain benefits by parting with the cash and participating. I don't feel I got anything out of last nights session.

[Kaekae]

I attended them over six years ago ( so I am sure much would have changed since) when pregnant with my first child. Nothing was covered about csections, formula feeding etc. I went onto have an emergency csection, failed ventouse and forceps. My milk didn't come in and when it did I discovered my son had a tongue tie so made the decision to start formula feeding after weeks of agony. I felt like the biggest failure ever and now know I must have been suffering from PND. I felt upset when I heard about other people's perfect births, although happy for them. I think the NCT classes had made me think it was all going to be perfect. Even now I find it hard to watch any birth related programmes. Another lady on my NCT class also attended the NHS ones as well and I wished I had too. Six years on I am not in touch with anyone from my NCT class. I see one or two in passing. Would I attend again? No!

[hattyyellow]

I remember thinking it would be far more helpful to have kept some of the classes for after the births. I remembered practically nothing from the class about how to bath a baby once the baby was actually there needing to be bathed and it would have been far more helpful to have had a bunch of people trying to stop a real baby crying than a pretend one!

I think it's when the baby is actually there and you're tired and confused is when you need that support and coaching most. Plus the support of everyone at an honest and vulnerable stage rather than discussing something on a theoretical pre-birth basis..

I do think there needs to be a more standard approach to course delivery, as others have stated, if the NCT is to be more than just a way of potentially making friends with other mothers to be..

[Wuxiapian]

DP and I did both the NCT and the NHS class.

I found the NHS class just as informative and way less condescending.

[GreenShadow]

Something else to bear in mind is that you don't necessarily have to do NCT classes to benefit from NCT social groups. Many areas have local groups and the friends I made in this group are the ones I'm now closer to than the ones I made in my antenatal group. Our eldest DC are now university age yet we still meet up for lunch every month.

So have a look on their website and see if there is anything going on near you. I know when babies are young, you really want parents with children the same age, but this stage doesn't last long and a very local group where you can walk to meetings is great.