To expect my 19 yr old to stand on her own two feet?

[sooze41]

We have a 19 yr old away at Uni (2nd yr) who seems to be constantly asking for money. We have always insisted she worked part time from age 16, even though she wasn't keen ( I found her the first job through a friend) because we think its important for them to take some responsibility and earn some money of their own. When she went to Uni it took her three months to find a job because she didn't fancy doing this that or the other, and in the meantime we gave her an allowance to keep her afloat, as well as topping her rent up, in fact we had to cut the allowance in half to force her into getting a job, I am sure she would happily have carried on taking money from us indefinitely! She got a job which she fits in easily with Uni as they are only in lectures three days a week, and she earns a good wage from it, but because she likes to spend a lot on clothes/make up she is always asking us for top ups. Quite honestly, I am sick of the conflict, yes we can afford it, but if she budgeted properly she wouldn't need any extra ( we already pay £100 a month towards her rent as her loan doesn't cover it). It seems like all we are good for is money, she honestly can't understand why we expect her to budget and take care with her money, she thinks that as we can afford to give it to her we should! She can't grasp that we just want her to grow up and take responsibility and not keep expecting us to bail her out, and it's a constant source of tension. Anyone dealt with this issue?

[Redlocks30]

Sounds like she wants to live like a princess! Has she made friends with a bunch of people who get massively bank rolled?

£50 for a skirt and £30 for a bit on make up?! I think twice about spending money like that (and usually decide against it!) and I have a job!

[whois]

I worked completely FT during my degree (40-60 hours depending on the week) and got a first

Wow. 40 to 60 hours?? When did you actually go to uni? Did you have many lectures?

There is some study which says anything over 20 hours work a week is detrimental to studies which I can believe.

To be fair, I was heavily involved in a couple of sports clubs, including running one in my second year and on the committee for the national organisation in my third year and spent every weekend away with that. So my view of how much available study/work time is clouded by only having four and a half working days available, plus three or four weekday evenings. I also had lectures every day, not all day, but generally spaced out in the morning and afternoon so there wasn't a free block to find work in. And we got made to do quite a bit of group work so you had to be around between lectures to do that. Oh and applying for internships/jobs as well was a pretty full on exercise.

Phew, just thinking about it is making me even more convinced there was no way I could have had a term time job without sacrificing something else. I didn't even do that much hanging out in pubs, shopping or clubbing!

I worked for a year before uni so had some savings. Waxed them reasonably quickly tho! Had a menial job in my first summer, and a well paid internship in my second. Nothing in my third pre starting my 'real' job.

Respect to everyone that managed to support themselves.

Thing is, there is plenty of time in life for working and I think I would rather my children got to enjoy themselves at uni and had time to be involved with sport or other societies rather than working. I probably wouldn't be happy to fund them if all they did was a bit of uni then hit the pub tho'

[Bumblequeen]

Your dd knows you will bail her out. She needs to acquire budgeting skills. 19 is not too young. Google 'Cap Money'. They offer budgeting training tools for university students.

From the age of 17, I worked pt and studied. I gave my mum housekeeping and occasionally regularly did a food shop when she was broke.

Apart from birthdays and Christmas dm did not buy me clothes/shoes/make up once I got a part time job.

I am amazed at the number of people I personally know who pay their teenage/adult children's monthly mobile bill, pick them up late at night on demand, pay for their holidays abroad. All this when they work!

[wordfactory]

OP.

Your DD should have been taught how to budget before 19. Along with cooking, shopping and all other general life skills. But I suspect you know that .

What you can't do is let it go on any longer. A child not able to look after themselves is vaguely acceptable, an incapable adult is hugely unattractive.

Be firm. Help her, of course, with the numbers, but be firm. Endlessly sending money will result in a woman without the life skills she will need to make her way in the world. You can't let that happen.

As for a job, well I think it dependson the course and the university. I teach on one course where the students can easily fit in some work. Contact time is little and there is one piece of written work a term! I work in another place where I don't think it would be feasible. Short and intense terms with written work most weeks!

[Ragwort]

University is not school and students are supposed to be studying independently during the working week - yes, we all know that, but how many university students religiously study from 9-5 all day . The vast majority of them find enough time to party all night and laze around all morning so it should be very easy to fit in a few hours p/t work. A young friend of mine was shocked that he had three lectures starting at 9am each week !

Wow, £50 for a skirt & £30 on make-up, I missed that.

[Bonsoir]

I actually think it's all wrong that students should be on long university courses that are not at all intense.

If there is so little work to be done, the courses should be made shorter and more intense.

[Bonsoir]

I don't think it is true that all students party all the time and stay up late - I certainly didn't, my sister didn't, our friends didn't and the DC I know who are currently at university don't.

[Ragwort]

Bonsoir - I agree with your point at 8.53 - I think university courses should be much shorter and much more intense. In my four year degree (many years ago ) I had less that five hours lectures & tutorials a week. I had loads of time to do what I wanted - which in my case was a lot of community work (Women's Aid as it was called then), scouting and a part time job.

And of course I exaggerated, not all students party all the time - but an awful lot do .

[SleepPleaseSleep]

Bonsoir, as a resident of a uni town and in a big student area, I can assure you some definitely still do party all night!
Dunno how they can afford it- I couldn't as a student. Parents money perhaps, as the subject of thread shows.
I never got a penny in either cash or food. Listen to the others, teach her budgeting and cut her off

[Bonsoir]

I know some do! I just don't think they all do, by a long shot!

I used to go to bed at 9.45 pm when I was at university - it was heaven!

[wordfactory]

Bonsoir I honestly think that the one course I teach on could be completed in two years.

That said, with finances as they are now, it's actually helpful to most students if they can work and study. Especially in London where living costs are so high. Most students simply can't borrow enough to cover what they need for the year, so being able to have a pt job alongside is necessary.

[Bonsoir]

I think there is an intellectual value to intense study that goes missing when students are constantly flitting between work and study.

[whatever5]

I went to university before the days of loans and people only worked during term time if they wanted to buy expensive make up or skirts. Very few people had to earn money just to eat and I find it really strange that people expect their children to do that if they can afford to give them money. I will give my children enough money to live on while they are at university, if I can afford it (taking the loan into account).

For some courses at some universities, students may have plenty of free time to work but that's certainly not true of all courses (e.g. medicine, dentistry, pharmacy).

[4paws]

sooze here's what I think you need to do:

Get an idea from her of how much she thinks she's going to earn in the next few years after Uni. Then what she thinks her lifestyle will be like; if she thinks she's going to afford paying back loans, holidays, cars, rent of a flat in london, taxis, trains, insurance, water, council tax, nights out, clothes make up, you name it. Then get onto net salary calculator and work out how much net income 20k for example gives you in the bank, Finally, google dividing income into percentages, Dave Ramsey and the like, 25-25% income on housing, 10% debt repayment, 10% savings (xmas/holidays/new car/) 2%-8% on clothing etc etc and let her work out how much she will actually be left with, once she's paid for all the necessities. My bet is right now, she is clueless and has no idea. The penny needs to drop, and the sooner the better, or she will end up with massive debt problems.

[Slipshodsibyl]

It isn't clear exactly how much you are supporting her. If your contribution is just 100 pounds per month plus as hoc top ups then I think that isn't very much at all (provided you can spare more). My elder daughters are soon to return to universities which give an approximate figure that students will need which is really helpful. It is about 4200 on top of the maintainance loan of about 3800. This assumes they will get a job during the Summer but not otherwise. We provide that . Their friends at other universities generally have parents who pay accommodation while they use the grant for spending money.

Parents who post in these threads often seem to feel that their student children should be very self sufficient but that is not what I see in general among parents in my life and I have friends of all income brackets. I admire those who manage to do a degree and work a lot of hours or run a home but they are exceptions .

It depends very much on the university and course as to whether she works and also upon what she does with her time when not in lectures. I have a background in teaching and Higher Ed and I am not in favour of working during term time if parents are able to contribute without hurting your own finances. I would suggest paying as many costs as you can from your contribution or having her do that when the grant comes in. If you can, load a food payment card either for the student union or a supermarket, that is helpful, then her needs ad commitments are covered and the sum leftover is much smaller and for her to spend freely and it will help her not to get into a pickle for a while.

Budgeting is really hard in a world where marketing convinces girls they need an array of clothing and beauty products and are losers if they are not very social. They do make mistakes. If you can help her pay as much up front as possible from her loan and your contribution, then, if she overspends you know that all she wants is a new skirt and she can learn to go without sometimes but that everything she needs to live and study is safely covered.

[Beastofburden]

The University quality assurance body assumes that a degree takes 1200 "total study hours" a year (Total study meaning taking contact hours and private study together). Actually, according to this year's Which/HEPI study the average Uni only requires 900 hours. Which said this year that increasingly, degrees were more like a part-time job than a full-time job, and that this has changed over the past few years. Total study hours ranged from 15 hours a week to 50; Oxford and Cambridge required twice as much study as their nearest comparators.

[wordfactory]

slip so a student would need 8k as a rule of thumb? To cover rent and living expenses?

[AliceRose90]

Personally? I don't think you are being unreasonable. I did not go to university, and if I had I wouldn't have received any financial help from my parents. I learned to be very self sufficient and budget at a young age. I have a stepdad who doesn't believe in letting teenagers coast along. I got a part time job as soon as I turned 16, and used to pay bus fares to get there rather than getting lifts from my parents. I started full time work at 17, paid £50 a week "rent" to my parents and was living alone by 18, paying all rent and bills myself.

This probably seems quite extreme, but I honestly think it did me the world of good. I loved being so independent, that I'd earned my own money. Oh sure, at the time I cursed them, but now I look back and think how much I appreciate what they did. I learned responsibilities very early on, I didn't have to rely on anyone for anything, and my stepdad is so proud of how I've done over the years that he recently bought me a laptop (and I'm an adult now!) ;)

Me and my partner will be taking the same approach with our son. I'm currently studying at home alongside working and being a mum. I think it's all about motivation. Honestly though, I think this sort of thing should be taught in schools. An hour a week teaching teenagers about finances, how to budget, etc, I think these are pretty essential life skills.

[LessMissAbs]

Did you go to uni, OP? I did, and got a grant as well as my tuition fees paid, no loans. I cannot think how I would have managed as well as working virtually full time. I wouldn't have had time to study. I did work full time in the summer, Easter and Christmas holidays though. So many parents pay their student children's rent, and it puts those who don't get this help at a huge disadvantage. I think you are being very harsh on your daughter. She doesn't sound as if she is spending excessively on clothes and make up, but she does need stuff to wear presumably and looking good is what most people want to do.

I really don't see how working full time at the same time as doing a degree is workable. Unless you produce graduates with useless degrees that are marked too easily (this is an academic concern). Its a horrible state of affairs that we have created in this country in a once excellent academic system which worked.

Tabby Neither would dream of asking us for money. They would be embarrassed, I think

We pay for her share of the rent on the flat (all inclusive)

Do you see the difference?

[LessMissAbs]

Ragwort I think university courses should be much shorter and much more intense. In my four year degree (many years ago grin) I had less that five hours lectures & tutorials a week

Whats the point in going to university then?

I had about that amount of teaching or less in my degree, but the point was that the lectures only guide you as to what else you are meant to learn within the subject. It is not school, you are expected to study in the library and do develop research skills. Lectures contain a tiny amount of the information required at university level education.

I and a lot of others treated it like a full time job and used the library as our base, leaving it for lectures. I then returned to the library after tea until it closed at 10pm. But I got very good marks, and I wouldn't have been able to do that while holding down a full time job. I did benefit hugely though from having a variety of different full time jobs in the holidays. I also participated in the uni clubs and societies, particularly the sports ones. A lot of this is traditionally considered part of the university experience, part of becoming a well rounded individual, before you go off and work in a full time job for the rest of your life.

I appreciate this once valuable system is now considered outmoded and employers are struggling to find graduates who are worth employing!

[Bonsoir]

"I really don't see how working full time at the same time as doing a degree is workable. Unless you produce graduates with useless degrees that are marked too easily (this is an academic concern). Its a horrible state of affairs that we have created in this country in a once excellent academic system which worked."

Indeed.

[CostaLady]

I studied Law and managed to have a part time job at the same time. I had no choice - no parents to help out. I didn't find it hard but did get very jealous of my housemates who had generous parents and who never had to buy budget food. I don't think YABU at all and you sound like a great mum.

[lurkerspeaks]

Hmm. I think you need to sit down and work out a realistic budget with her.

I went in the days of loans/ grants. I got the full assessed amount from my parents and they paid to run my car(I needed transport for my course and I got a car after one of my friends was killed cycling)My grandparents also gave me a small extra allowance. Any extra cash came from loan (which was basically rent money).

I did one of the demanding degrees mentioned above and worked part time until 3rd year. It was OK and my grades weren't affected. I also worked every holiday and saved to subsidise term time.

I ate well and socialised a lot and had an expensive hobby (so I suppose the equivalent of posh clothes) but I never asked for parental handouts. If I had my mum would probably have laughed in my face and bought me pasta and tins of tomatoes.

[whois]

LessMissAbs agreed. The 'university experience' has been completely devalued.

I'm so grateful my parents recognise the value of academic pursuits and gave me the support to enable me to spend time enjoying my subject.

All these 'I was working and self sufficient at 12' comments are missing the point. Uni is not the time to become self sufficient in terms of money. You are there to LEARN and DEVELOP not to earn a living.

[MrsOakenshield]

That is true, of course, and personally I'm not in favour of students having to do proper part time jobs alongside studying - when I was at uni those who did work generally did a couple of evenings a week in the union bar, something like that - plus summer holiday jobs of course. Most of my friends studied science, engineering, that kind of thing, and did pretty much 9-5 at uni, then they would have to do work at home on top.

But, what students need to understand is that their way of life has to change, and that means spending more creatively. A lot of entertainment for students is heavily subsidised - we rarely ventured much beyond the union bars and places that did discounts for students. Gigs would be my main cost, and even then never to the big venues. We hardly ever went out to eat. Clothes - maybe because I was very gothy but I rarely bought clothes in high street stores - cheap market stalls, army surplus, that kind of thing, and we wore stuff till it was in rags, pretty much. After all, uni is when you can stop giving a shit what anyone else thinks of your appearance!

They're not there to earn a living, no, but they're not children at home anymore either. I don't remember this being hard - I was so bloody happy not to be living at home (not that home was awful, just wahay! you're 18 and Can Do What You Like! kind of thing) that not having much money was neither here nor there.