To be sad about my three year old's constant requests for telly and the overwhelming tide of plastic and electronic crap? And WIBU

[Sockywockydoodah]

...to take all the annoying flashing stuff to the charity shop and start again?

Has anyone successfully done this?

Or weaned their toddler off constant requests for the telly?

Or got them to be interested in playing with their own toys (as opposed enthusiastically playing with friends' toys when round their houses, but ignoring their own)?

[Sockywockydoodah]

Yes, I meant the stuff like the fecking Bob the Builder electronic tat that's makes hideous noises when you push a button. Pointless, irritating and devoid of any merit. Definitely not things like Duplo.

[Sockywockydoodah]

Oops

[eggybrokenoff]

yeah we have bob the builder shite. wish we had got fewer wooden digger type bits from mulberry bush website etc rather than the giant vat of bob toys from ebay that sit there making random sounds at random times.

[FixItUpChappie]

I've instituted a few house rule about screens - no TVs, no IPADs, no IPhones (yes I mean you DH) until we've been up for 2 hours in the morning. Then its a set amount of tv for DS1 - 1 hour during baby's nap. Then its off - no amount of whining will change it. DS was getting in the habit of waking up and immediately asking for tv instead of cuddles and books with us. This new routine has put an end to that issue. So family time first, then tv time.

Also no tv or screens from when my DH gets home until kids are in bed. Its family time.

When both DH and I are at work we have no tv during the week as the time we have together is so limited that we feel it cannot be spent on television.

As for the toys....well you can't control what people buy them but rotating things out so there is good variety does work a treat. Its not the material I think that is the issue but whether the toy is open ended that matters. If you have a bunch of flashing talking tat he doesn't use then at 3 years some of that can quietly disappear I would think.

[MrsMook]

We have a timer on the TV as DS1's TV habit was getting out of hand. C Beebies was a good friend over a very long winter when I was struggling to get out because of SPD in pregnancy, but once I was recovered from the birth and getting mobile again, that excuse went, and we found that he would watch Thomas/ Pat/Sam DVDs on loop and he'd go off and ignore them, and come back and kick off if we attempted to turn them off. When the timer clicks the TV off, he knows it is "broken", and knows when the standby button is on or off. The beauty is that we haven't touched the TV to turn it off.

We rotate toys around and it does generate more interest. I find the louder and flashier the toy is, the more pointless and less it is played with. We've never bought a toy that has no function when the batteries are dead. Sadly family seem to be duped by the pseudo-curriculum claims and lurid colours into thinking the toy is good. The singing fish lasted 3 presses of the button, and the V-Tech cat had its speaker wires cut for being rude enough to demand "PLAY WITH ME!!!" within 8 hours of being unwrapped. I don't tolerate such demanding behaviour from a lump of plastic.

[JimmyCorkhill]

Oh Friday, ouch! But so very true. It IS lazy parenting and that's why we feel so guilty because we know we should be interacting with our DC instead of palming them off with the tv or computer.

I think we need to do a cold turkey week with no electronics. We did this a while back and it was great but as soon as it was over we just went back to what we did before .

I have noticed that with DD2 I have got out all DD1s baby toys and the electronic ones are just not used. They seem so boring now but I remember being really swayed by them when I bought them originally.

[geekgal]

I don't know, being a tech person and having a family full of engineers and computer programmers I kind of see kids learning about it earlier as the future - if I'm hiring I want the kid who played games all night and understands how consoles work inside out rather than the one who had no access to anything with a plug! The future is computing, even standard office jobs now require better knowledge than most school leavers seem to have. TV I love, I personally love educational shows as well as books, so long as the person is gaining some kind of knowledge it doesn't really matter where it comes from. When I was a child it was on all the time but it was only things like the news, political programs and painting shows (basically anything my mother liked) so we didn't really watch kids programs. Maybe that's the problem, giving in to what the kids want to watch as opposed to leading them to watch more useful things - they're going to want to watch it anyway, so if they can learn at the same time then great!

[friday16]

I want the kid who played games all night and understands how consoles work inside out

Yeah. You think the first part of that sentence implies the second? My experience as an IT Director employing staff to do IT shit says "not in a million years". Coming next: "I do the school run every day in my car, so I understand suspension dynamics and I will be trackside for Seb at the next grand prix".

The future is computing, even standard office jobs now require better knowledge than most school leavers seem to have.

And computer gaming provides which part of this, other than fast twitch reflexes?

House full of computers. Lots of computers. Just not computer games.

[MaddAddam]

My dp is one of those geeks who spent his teen years programming in his bedroom, he designed and sold a quite well known computer game (a long time ago now). He's no keener than I am on our dc spending all day and night in front of screens, playing games/watching tv don't lead to being a good programmer. My 12yo dd is learning to program, and that's great, but I don't think she really needs to be living her life through facebook or games or watching endless tv to do this. it's the passive attachment to screens I find worrying, really, my dc are lively and active when the screens are turned off, they like watersports and martial arts and outdoor activities, but if a screen's on they gravitate like lemmings and find it really hard to turn it off and get on with other things. They've always been like this, and we've always had tv and computers so it's not cos of the novelty, I really do think they would all watch tv all day every day out of habit, if I didn't wield the heavy parental control.

[geekgal]

Friday16 - maybe it's just the circles I run in, I'm an engineer and most kids I know have taken apart their games consoles at least once! As an IT director you're looking for something different, with more software and only basic hardware elements. I want someone who can do a bit more than plug a machine in and stick a windows disk in to make it go! I find it tends to be the kids with access to the hardware throughout their lives that do better rather than the ones who picked up on it later on. Also as I said, I've worked with many an office person who can't even set up a printer, and with a lot of IT now outsourced its better to have at least held a cable in your hand before rather than nothing! Although I will agree a desktop is usually more useful in the long run...

[fuzzpig]

Sorry I've only read half the thread so far but wanted to reply before I go out.

No YANBU and definitely go for it! You won't be being mean at all, you will be doing your DCs a big favour long term.

I love a book called Simplicity Parenting which I heard about on MN, I really recommend it. It reminded me of what I envisaged and wanted from family life when we first had DCs, but somehow we lost our way. We are getting back to it now!

It is very valuable for children to choose their own play, and not rushing off out every day - maybe a good compromise would be to set something up the night before for the morning so they do have something to turn to instantly, but getting him to choose/set up something for himself in the afternoon, and leave him to it while you read and go on MN get other stuff done?

[stopgap]

I think this makes for interesting reading re: those who work in tech at a high level, and how they feel about early exposure to electronics:

www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/technology/at-waldorf-school-in-silicon-valley-technology-can-wait.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[Sockywockydoodah]

Can you make the link clicky, please, stopgap?

Funnily enough, fuzzpig, that book is on my shelf waiting to be read - just picked it from amazon on the basis of the cover and blurb, so I'm glad to hear it's so helpful. Must cut down on my own screen time and read it!

[fuzzpig]

Re: the screen time thing. DCs haven't really watched much actual telly - aerial is unplugged a lot of the time. Exception was Milkshake on weekend mornings but we kicked that habit after getting sick of the adverts.

DVDs are our thing though so they still watch plenty. We have never allowed any screens before school so they have accepted that as the status quo, no big deal. This term though we agreed no DVDs Mon-Thurs and after the odd whinge there have been no problems. DD is much keener to read, we play board games most nights after dinner. It is lovely.
:)

[JimmyCorkhill]

Hi fuzzpig .

Right, I have had a chat with my DP and for the whole of next week we are banning the tv!

There will also be NO laptop access for DD1 (DD2 is too little to play anyway although she likes to chew the power cable ).

I will be limited to 10 mins a day internet access to check emails/bank balance. DP is a software developer so has to be on a laptop all day BUT we will not go on the laptops in view of the children.

This is our cold turkey week but instead of a one off like last time I will be thinking of how to restrict screen time after the week is over.

I plan to put different toys/games out in the front room before I go to bed so that DD1 has something to occupy her when she gets up. I will also make more of an effort to go out/do something together in the afternoons when she's home from preschool.

I am hoping that without being attached to a screen myself, I will get niggly jobs (housework/dinner prep...) done and therefore will have the time to spend with the DDs instead of feeling pulled in lots of directions.

Feel free to join me!!!!!!!

[Sockywockydoodah]

Good plan Jimmy.

Today, DS1 has had his first screen-free day since he was about 6 months old. I'm embarrassed but also proud of that.

We've had a good day - last night I put out blocks, some dolls and finger puppets, a tea set, some nature bits and bobs and a magnifying glass. We went to a session at the local children's centre and a run around the park.

Good stuff.

[JimmyCorkhill]

Well done Socky . That is exactly how I want next week to go! Love the idea of the nature items. We will have to collect some first but, hey, that's another activity sorted!

[Squitten]

Our TV broke about 6mths ago so the screen ban was thrust upon us really. DH never liked the kids watching telly too much and I think I was becoming more and more reliant on it as a babysitter so that I could do other things. We decided not to replace it immediately and see what happened. We do have an iPad so can still stream movies and watch telly. We have no games consoles at all. My younger cousins (teens) are utterly addicted to theirs so I'm hoping to put that off for as long as possible!

DS1, who is 5, definitely loves his screens and can be a pest about them but it's much more of a negotiation now - yes, you can watch a cartoon before bed if you tidy up all the toys on the living room floor first. Since we've had no telly, he's developed a real interest in Lego and so will often want to do that instead of asking for the iPad. DS2 can take it or leave it really and we've noticed that his imaginative play has really flourished since the telly has been gone. DC3 is due shortly and I'm going to be very interested to see how they are with no screen time whatsoever until they're old enough for the iPad.

Electronic toys are a nuisance but I found them to be really popular at the 1-2yr phase where they just LOVE buttons, but then we could quietly put them away as they moved onto building, arts and crafts, etc. DS2 was a lot less interested in them as he only wanted to get into whatever his brother was doing!

We decided not to replace the telly at all now. My family think we're a step above becoming Amish but we really like it now. And no telly license to pay!

[JCDenton]

There is definitely some truth to what geekgal is saying,I got into computers, which are now a huge part of my job from tweaking my parents' old PCs to run newer games without smoking from the vents!

Nobody here is going to stick kids in front of a computer and call it education but saying that all games are 'aesthetically, intellectually and morally ugly'? All kids are different and technology can have a place in that.

It is however the nature of entertainment today is that it's limitless, games can go online, the Internet has a billion episodes of cartoons on demand and of course you can record anything and kids will want to see it 'again, again, again'! As great as it is for an adult, it's so important to stop it becoming an obsession for kids.

[JimmyCorkhill]

Well wish me luck! Screen free for a week. Hopefully I'll live to tell the tale .

[fuzzpig]

Best of luck jimmy! Looking forward to reading (on a screen of course :o) how it pans out!

[hillyhilly]

Good luck jimmy, I'll be interested to see how you get on with the restrictions applying to yourself as well as I know I would struggle with that and that there are times I let my 6 yr old play on an iPad so that I can do the same (though obviously I'm not playing I'm doing important stuff like Facebook, mumsnet, candy crush errrr!)

[Sockywockydoodah]

Good luck, Jimmy. Not sure if I'm brave enough to do that - how old did you say your DC were again?

Small result here - have agreed with DH that when we move (in the next few weeks, hopefully), we will no longer have a screen in the main family area. That's as much to stop us being on the computer all the time as it is to remove the constant temptation from DS.

[JimmyCorkhill]

Right, this is really it now . I'm off to bed. I will take the laptop to hide it and tell DD1 that DP has taken it to work. Duplo creative cakes box is on the rug for tomorrow morning.

DD1 is 3 and DD2 is 6 months so will be merrily oblivious to this experiment.

See you next week when I return as a better person..or a gibbering wreck!!

[MrsKoala]

This thread is really interesting. I have a 1yo and i have no problem with him watching tv. Is there a reason some of you are so bothered about screen time? Is it just behavioural issues? I grew up watching tv whenever i wanted, as did all my friends. I am thinking i may need to come up with a 'policy' in the future based on some reasoning. DH cannot function when the tv is on, which drives me mad as i have always used it as background noise and i wanted DS to grow up being used to it so he learned to zone things out like i can. If that makes sense.