to think the idea of a mansion tax just penalises London and the south

[Redpipe]

I will probably get flamed for saying this but I don't believe that owning a 2 million pound house automatically makes you rich. Certainly in London a 2 million will not buy you a mansion, more like a terraced family home.

AIBU to think that the idea just penalises people in the south?

[Dawndonnaagain]

The tax system requires that they pay an amount to the police, the education system, the health service.
Oh, and according to fridays figures here it isn't a massive amount. As little as £19.00 per week in some cases.

[Binkybix]

And where are all the 1 beds going to suddenly appear from? It'll only serve to push the price up for first time buyers

Only if the numbers of people who live in £2million houses, and choose to downsize are high enough to affect the market. I don't know if the numbers are sufficient. Do you? Also, freeing up that amount of cash would hardly put you in the lower house bracket for 1 beds - which is where majority of first time buyers would be looking. The converse of your argument is that supply of the £2million houses would increase, therefore reducing cost of these 'normal' family homes (which are still in v pricey areas of London).

I'm not sure why I'm arguing though, as something in me is uncomfortable with a retrospective tax that could add up to £30k pls a year! I suppose it has to come from somewhere though.

[Redpipe]

somethingonce

"Retired people's memories are more valuable than everybody else being able to live in life-stage appropriate accommodation, then?"

WTF I really don't understand where this has come from.

[Chocolatehunter]

Redpipe you haven't really answered my point. Plenty of people can't live where they were raised (I was raised in the South Wales valleys) they are forced out because they have to work and there are few jobs. Yet there's never an outcry then.

However when it's London everyone is up in arms. It smacks of NIMBYism because apoarantly we should all be concerned for those poor people with huge amounts of wealth tucked away in equity being 'priced out of the market' when they could easily live elsewhere very comfortably, like the rest of the UK.

[PurpleGirly]

My parents had to move. Lots of my family had to move ... Why is this man so different? I am sure many people who have family who have downsized to enjoy a long and happy retirement.

By the way the 5 bedrooms house in Dulwich is detached, not a 3 bed terrace. The other one is Wimbledon. I could go on rightmove now and show lots of 5 bed detached houses across the country for the same price ( not all of the country but some of it) like this one www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-36605173.html

[SirRaymondClench]

I agree with you Redpipe.

As to all the posters saying he should sell his house and move into cheaper, he has bought and paid for his house and no doubt paid a fortune in taxes over the years. He is a pensioner and this is his home. Why should he have to move?

[Binkybix]

Oh I see it's not 1% of total value - that's very different then. But how much would it raise?

[Redpipe]

INmysparetime

If his house is worth £2.1M his tax bill would be £100, for a house that he's lived rent-free in for decades.

It would be 1 thousand pounds not 1 hundred

[Redpipe]

chocolatehunter


I can't explain it better than I have sorry.

[InMySpareTime]

I stand corrected, but the point remains, it's unlikely to be a huge tax burden, and it won't hit your neighbour for a number of years, even assuming house price inflation in London increases at its current ridiculous rate.

[Redpipe]

purplegirly

They are not having to move to free up cash for themselves for living or having to move because theycan't afford the area, they are having to move because the government wants them to pay more tax to subsidise those less well off.

[Vickibee]

Council tax as it stands does not affect ability to pay either, once you have reached a certain level of income you hav to pay, for some it is a high percent of disposable income eg if you are on new. This is why ther is in incentive to work as benefits claimants get it paid or most

[MrsCampbellBlack]

To be honest, I really struggle to feel much sympathy for a generation who have benefitted so much from the house price rises over the last 20+ years.

Your neighbour will have to make a decision as many people do when they reach a certain age, ie, to downsize and free up some capital to make their retirement more comfortable.

I feel a lot more sorry for those people who are never going to be able to buy a house because of the craziness of the property market.

[SomethingOnce]

Redpipe, you were concerned about your neighbour having to give up memories because of having to move house (not that moving usually causes amnesia, but anyway...).

My point is that that is a rather indulgent argument for wealthy retirees not to be expected to either downsize or pay the mansion tax.

[Vickibee]

Nmw not new

[Binkybix]

But that's how tax works. You could equally say why should I have to pay high levels of income tax to provide more for others than I take out, which limit further where I can live in London? Tax has to come from somewhere - it's just who you choose to penalise isn't it? In some people's eyes the option to cash in to the tune of £100k would be a very nice problem to have.

[FairPhyllis]

Someone who owns a 2 million pound property is wealthy, even if they don't have a lot of cash.

People (especially working class people) have always had to be pretty mobile in response to their circumstances, so I find the preciousness about 'keeping communities together' rather hard to understand. Just looking at my own family in the last century - all working class - every single generation on both sides was super mobile. They moved countries if they had to in order to find work. I have too and expect I will move in the future if circumstances dictate. That's just what you do. I don't know why wealthy pensioners who live in London should be a special case.

I think OP is correct that this is a tax on having wealth concentrated in the SE, but why shouldn't it be? Living in London and the SE is a privilege, not a right. Londoners have easy access to cultural and economic opportunities that the rest of the country doesn't have because Labour did bog all to build growth outside London.

OP's friend is not going to be affected by this anyway, so I'm not sure why he is coming into this at all!

[Redpipe]

So they should just suck it up and move out of the area away from friends and family or move into a 1 bedroom flat locally.

The level of empathy on here is shocking.

[MrsCampbellBlack]

Its not lack of empathy Redpipe - its just others are more deserving of my outrage/sympathy.

Come on, he could downsize to a 2 bed £1m house and hardly be living in shitsville.

Its what many many older people do when their families leave home.

[SomethingOnce]

Everybody has to cut their cloth.

Would you rather single/couple retirees rattle around four-bed family homes while younger people raise families in small flats with no gardens? Or just don't have families? (These children will be the workforce that supports an ageing population.)

[SomethingOnce]

And it's not a lack of empathy, it's just realistic.

[Redpipe]

fairphyllis

There is a major difference between moving for personal reasons/needs to find work etc. and having to move because the government are taxing you out of your family home.

I cannot believe posters cannot see the difference. I shall leave it there.

[Redpipe]

somethingOnce

everybody has to cut their own cloth these people are being asked to fund others at the cost of forcing them to leave their own homes.

I give up.

[SomethingOnce]

The government taxes me out of stuff I want but that's just how it goes.

[InMySpareTime]

The government aren't taxing people out of their family homes, the rising cost of housing is.
Hopefully the "mansion tax" would act as a brake on house price inflation, as more house values are kept just below the £2M mark.