to not understand why those with lower income get free childcare even if they don't work

[PrincessScrumpy]

2 mums from a toddler group I go to are on income support and their DC start their free 2 days a week at nursery at the age of 2. I have dd1 age 5, and dtds 2. We couldn't afford childcare for 2 babies so I had to cut my hours by more than half and work from home around dc which is hard but we wouldn't cover the bills if I didn't. obviously twins was a surprise and a huge financial hit so savings are very low/almost non existent.

Anyway, I have another year until my dtds get free childcare while a lady with one dc gets it at age 2 despite having no intention to work. This feels really unfair and I just don't get the reasoning.
I'm not trying to benefit bash but it's hard not to feel angry. Willing to accept iabu, but can't help feeling this way.

"That said it doesn't change the fact that its still nothing to do with free childcare, it's about giving children the best start possible. Why is that so hard for you to understand?"

:o

Yes, it has NOTHING to do with free childcare.

Oh, apart from the fact that it is childcare.

And it is free.

Other than that, it has NOTHING to do with free childcare.

Why is it so hard for you to understand that people you disagree with are not stupid?

The fact that the government has seen fit to offer free childcare as an early years intervention doesn't change the reality of what that intervention is - CHILDCARE. FOR FREE.

It's far easier to support this scheme when you aren't insisting that people ignore the reality as they see it, and accept your definition of reality.

It isn't a good idea to offer families on benefits a lot of services that the working poor cannot afford.

Agree with join

agree bonsoir

"It isn't a good idea to offer families on benefits a lot of services that the working poor cannot afford."

+2

Which is not to say that I don't think it is a good idea to offer those services.

Just that if you do, you need to make sure that the working poor can access them too.

The working poor can access it though... As long as that earn below a certain amount.

It is a service to help children who are struggling, as part of that service children are left in the care of others.

Someone made a good comparison yesterday - are you against children who get respite care for free? That's free childcare and something not everyone can access so surely that is as bad by the logic of some on here?

Education is not childcare. Ask your child's teachers.

I agree with join, the working poor ie those on mw or working part-time hours are nearly as poor or even poorer than those on benefits. Their children deserve the same services and they should be accessable to anyone below a certain threshold.

Call a spade, a spade.

Call a spade, a spade.

If I did that here, I would probably have my post reported.

The working poor will be able to recieved this in 2014 if they earn under 16,000

brd - my thoughts exactly!

the working poor ie those on mw or working part-time hours are nearly as poor or even poorer than those on benefits. Their children deserve the same services and they should be accessable to anyone below a certain threshold.
pumpkin, they ARE.

The working poor can access it though:

^"You must be getting one of the following:

Income Support
income-based Jobseeker?s Allowance (JSA)
income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
support through part 6 of the Immigration and Asylum Act
the guaranteed element of State Pension Credit
Child Tax Credit (but not Working Tax Credit) and have an annual income not over £16,190
the Working Tax Credit 4-week run on (the payment you get when you stop qualifying for Working Tax Credit)
Children looked after by a local council are also entitled to a place."^

It is early years education. Not a babysitting service. The fact that many working parents choose a form of childcare that incorporates early years education (nursery) is beside the point. That is not the purpose of this service; many nurseries have used the free EY provision for over 3's to their advantage to make nursery a more affordable choice for working parents, but again; that was not the purpose of the EY provision.

If this government want to twist it into a service that is there to help support working parents (as they seems to want to do sometimes) then they will probably need to amend the qualifying points so that only children of working parents can access it. As it stands, the EY provision was not intended for this use.

And all the anecdotes about how great individual single parents or unemployed parents are do not change the fact that statistically children of single parent households or workless household have poorer life outcomes and are more likely to be at a lower developmental/achievement level to their peers when they start school.

An increasing number of working poor will be able to access 2-year education next September:

From September 2014, a two-year-old will be eligible if they meet any one of the following criteria:

They meet the eligibility criteria also used for free school meals;
Their families receive Working Tax credits and have annual gross earnings of no more than £16,190 per year;
They have a current statement of SEN or an Education, Health and Care plan;
They attract Disability Living Allowance;
They are looked after by the LA;
They have left care through special guardianship or an adoption or residence order.

No they aren't because working tax credits devoids them from recieving it.

I wish defenders of this free childcare could look on my Facebook page and read the gloating hoard of mums who are planning to go to weatherspoons/ have alone time with their partner who has come out of prison and have more children /laze about now their various offspring are in nursery.

I wish my DS could have some free hours. My dh works, I am ACTIVELY searching for work. Every time I have an interview it costs me £45 a day for a childminder - which I cannot afford.

I look at my life, hard working dp, having to live with parents as we can't afford to rent anymore, having no money or help. Then my friends on benefits who have all this free time, support and their own flats. I also invite those who say life isn't cushty on benefits to come and spend an afternoon with my group of friends.

But moustachio with mum's like that, surely those children need all the help they can get? I doubt those mums were taking them all to playgroups and swimming and music classes and soft play and a variety of other educational opportunities prior to them getting the free hours.

pumpkin lots of the children I look after have a parent working so they are accessing it.

One of the conditions of the place is that parents will attend stay and play sessions throughout the term or attend a course of some kind as part of parental involvement in their child's learning.

It's not the kids faults if there parents would rather spend money and time in the pub and don't work for whatever reason

In most cases the two year funding is given primarily to help the child

Oh, Hopalong, it's not about the children. It's about the adults, dontcha know...

Indeed. I'm blaming Nick Clegg/Call Me Fucking Dave (for everything generally) and their crappy rhetoric about helping working parents. They have co-opted a service that was not designed to help working parents, but to ensure disadvantaged children were given help, into their own pro working parents policy. This is one of the lesser reasons that I think they're a bunch of pricks.

Seriously moustachio, would you want to trade places with those women?

Clearly you have values and standards that these women do not. That is probably due to your upbringing, a credit to your family.

The women you speak of have no such values; that is nothing to envy. I feel sorry for their children.