to wonder why women need special classes...

[TheLostWinchesterWife]

...in bricklaying, plumbing, woodwork and decorating effects! Just browsing through the local college prospectus and in starter courses there they are. Specialist decorating effects, intro to woodworking skills, basic plumbing and intro to bricklaying then after listing them all they are repeated but specified For Women.
Do they have lighter bricks for our dainty little hands? Do we use hearts and flowers and fluffy bunnies for decorating effects while the men use ox bollocks as rollers ?
It smacks of let's let the little ladies think they can do these man things. Arent they funny little creatures? fnaar fnaar fnaar snort!
Maybe its less intimidating or they have them for that reason but it seems so patronising.
Rant over.

[Callani]

I've been to mixed(!) woodwork classes because it was something I was personally interested in, rather than something I wanted to work at, and to be honest I found the men to be a right pain a lot of the time.

They constantly asked me if I needed help, or double checked that I understood things that were crystal clear, and when I was learning to do things (so naturally not doing things exactly right the first time, like every other blinking class member) they always wanted to step in to show me how to do it - even if they were getting things wrong too!

Now these men weren't being patronising, or intimidating, they were genuinely trying to help me, but it came from an assumption that I was less capable than they were and it was SO frustrating and I had to bite my tongue not to say something rude. I would be tempted by a women only course now, if only so I wasn't automatically seen as the weakest member of the class, just for having (rather small) breasts...

[BoneyBackJefferson]

mrsjay

The cooking course is about the only type of course that I have seen that is male only. I think given the problems that I have had trying to organise male only events that there is some sort of unwritten rule that it is not allowed.

CuChullain

"She did ask what was included in the ladies only course and apparently it was a watered down version of what the guys did which struck me as odd."

I find it odd as well, all of the courses I organised had the exactly the same content. Otherwise, what would be the point.

[mrsjay]

I guess you are right boney maybe women are more open to going along to something new and different, I know where i work have tried to organised men events and they dont work as well,

DD is doing what is seen as a male orientated course/degree and she is one of 3 girls but she doesn't get a watered down version and if she cant lift something she just asks whoever stronger is around, but i still think there is a place for women only courses,

[BoneyBackJefferson]

The thing is MrsJay was not that we couldn't get the attendance (we had enough for two classes), we had many complaints about the fact that it was male only (we were running a women only as well).

I have found IME that you can run mixed and women only courses but even if you have mixed and women you still can't (generally) have male only courses.

[themaltesefalcon]

I agree, OP, it's ridiculous.

[ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee]

themaltesefalcon - just curious, have you actually read the thread and seen the reasons why some women do value this option, or have you just replied to the OP without reading the thread first?

[comingalongnicely]

There are a lot of "women only" classes, courses and clubs in Kayaking. Main reason given is that they're happier where technique isn't overruled by brute force, where they don't get patronised by meat headed men & where they can have a good old "girlie time".

It's not like they don't still paddle with men, they just like a bit of time away from them....

[Takver]

You do get men only groups/courses - for example a friend attends a male only NVC (non violent communication) group. There I guess the men are stereotypically felt in society to be less competent, so they feel more comfortable learning new skills in a single sex setting.

[mrsjay]

I was in a mixed class at a part time course I did and tbh it was a pita although the men in it were young early 20s (if that) i felt like A they didnt take it seriously enough and mucked about the lecturer was like a school teacher half the time and B I was their mum

[mrsjay]

I dont know why people would object to men only

[ivykaty44]

I thought it was for the same reason that there are single sex schools, because woman and men learn to do something in different ways at different paces and need different teaching styles

[sameoldIggi]

Women tend to speak less when there are men present.

[BigBoobiedBertha]

OP YANBU - I don't see the need either although I can see some of you do. I personally find it patronising and unnecessary.

From my point of view, I grew up with a misogynist father who had worked in the building trade and who didn't think women were capable of anything. I can't imagine wanting to do a women only course that would, imo, just prove him right. It would just give him ammunition to say women were somehow doing a lesser course and needed to be taught separately because they couldn't hack being in a mixed group.

I don't actually think that women only courses are the way to go if you want to challenge gender stereotypes or if you want to come to expect equality. Let the men see that women are just as capable. Why would men be on the same course if they knew it all - you are all starting from the same point in terms of experience surely? No need to feel intimidated by the men.

Also, let women see that not all men are God's gift to DIY or the building trade. Has anybody thought that perhaps the colleges are protecting the poor delicate little men who don't want to be shown up by women in a mixed class - apologies if somebody has - I haven't read every single word of the thread. What a dent to the ego for the hapless man who comes bottom of a mixed group!!

But then I have a bit of a bee in my bonnet about women only business networking groups. I truly don't see the point. The whole thing about networking is to get your business known and to share information and advice. How is it beneficial to women if they are only prepared to do business with half the population? That is a whole other thread though.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

We tried to run a father and son cooking workshop and we were inundated with complaints about how it was not "inclusive" and "sexist", so it became a parent and child cooking workshop.

That we also advertised at the same time mother and son, mother and daughter, father and daughter, parent and child was immaterial.

[TheCraicDealer]

I would go to the women's one, simply to make friends. I work in a male-dominated industry, but I miss being with a lot of other women sometimes. You miss the different dynamic after a while. Fwiw I would've baulked at this before, always cringed slightly when I saw ads for "women's gyms" or whatever. But so long as we have the choice what the fuck does it matter?

[mrsjay]

We tried to run a father and son cooking workshop and we were inundated with complaints about how it was not "inclusive" and "sexist", so it became a parent and child cooking workshop



That for want of a better word is loopy imo

[exoticfruits]

There is nothing I dread more than being in a room full of women and men are banned. The conversation generally descends into competitive parenting tedium.

Yours must be young-thankfully everyone outgrows it.

[Katiepoes]

Bertha women's business networks are to support each other and provide mentoring and learning opportunities, not about who you actually do business with. I am happy you don't feel a need for them but in the world I am in they are important and beneficial.

They are not about patronising poor weak girlies, anymore than classes are. They are acknowledging a desire for women-centric spaces and groups. How about joining one before passing a rather dated judgment?

[WMittens]

sameoldIggi

Women tend to speak less when there are men present.

What a load of tosh.

[sameoldIggi]

Er.. That's me told? I don't agree, can't remember where all I've read about it (and conversations with friends confirmed it for me too) but a quick google threw this up - just demonstrating it's not just my idea

[TheLostWinchesterWife]

Well thishasmoved on since I last checked
Seems the majority think that this less patronizing and more necessary than I would have thought. Some interesting points raised that just wouldnt have occured to me.

[EBearhug]

It's not just that women will speak up less in mixed environments, but also that many speakers/teachers/chairpeople will be more likely to notice men with hands up in the room, or at least are more likely to ask men with hands up what their question is. (Can't be bothered to google for a study just now.)

[zeno]

It may have to do with funding. There's a lot of money around to support training for women in areas where they are under represented. For example, there is a business course in my area which is targeted at women, under 25s, people with a disability, and ethnic minority people. The funding criteria dictate the offering,.

[slightlysoupstained]

EBearhug the girls in my 5th form (hah, that ages me) physics class did our own research on that one.

The girls managed, with some effort, to wrestle a whole TWO MINUTES of attention from our appallingly sexist prick of a teacher during a 90 minute session. All the rest was spent on the boys.

[EBearhug]

In some ways, I think I was v lucky to go to a single sex secondary school. I was v taken aback when I got treated differently just because I was a girl, and challenged it. I think school probsbly set some values and expectations which may not have been so strong in a mixed school. So yes, I guess I see the value in women only evening classes.