to wonder why women need special classes...

[TheLostWinchesterWife]

...in bricklaying, plumbing, woodwork and decorating effects! Just browsing through the local college prospectus and in starter courses there they are. Specialist decorating effects, intro to woodworking skills, basic plumbing and intro to bricklaying then after listing them all they are repeated but specified For Women.
Do they have lighter bricks for our dainty little hands? Do we use hearts and flowers and fluffy bunnies for decorating effects while the men use ox bollocks as rollers ?
It smacks of let's let the little ladies think they can do these man things. Arent they funny little creatures? fnaar fnaar fnaar snort!
Maybe its less intimidating or they have them for that reason but it seems so patronising.
Rant over.

I heard in some areas they do this for particular religious groups, not sure which. The women are only allowed to be taught by women in classes of women or a man with a woman teacher too.
Its the same at some leisure centres too.
Not saying it is this, but could be.

I organised a women only course because it was specifically asked for.

My gran gained a new lease of life after attending a computer course for the elderly. There's no objective reason why the elderly would need separate classes, but if the class hadn't existed, my gran would never have attended one 'for young people'.

Schools have to be inclusive, but these are elective courses for people who have left school and can choose how to spend their time.

Women-only course for women actually wanting to learn to do stuff without being patronised, mixed (ie mostly men) one open to women following all the cliched women's-magazine dating advice about meeting men at evening classes? Only to be disappointed when they are all over 60 and/or married...

What courses do you run BBJ?

It would be handy if it was a plastering course in the South East

That's it, isn't it Morris - it doesn't matter how people should feel, it's about how the do feel and if it makes some women more comfortable, then so what really?!

I went to a car maintenance class for women - I can see a need and don't see anything wrong with it.

I couldn't care less now I 'should' feel.- it is how I feel that matters. I organised the car maintenance one because of the demand for it.

Chipping

Mainly those that have been mentioned already, motor vehicle, plumbing, household electrics.

Look past the end of your own nose, honestly!

Women only spaces, courses etc need to be allowed to exist for a number of reasons.

To enable women/girls from religious families access to courses that would otherwise be unable to attend.

To enable women who would be to insecure to learn a skill they are interested in

To enable women (like I used to be) who have been too traumatised by men to enter a make dominated environment.

As long as women are free to join the other course if they prefer what is your problem?

Would you rather people less Bolshy than yourself (and now me) didn't have a safe space to learn 'traditional' male skills?

I did a plumbing course, was me and 7 men. Was great. Loved the banter and we all ate pies from the van at lunchtime. The only difficulty I had was getting a pair of safety boots in a size 4. I was cut no slack for being female which was great. I can't see the need for female only classes myself but appreciate other women may feel uncomfortable.

I want to learn plastering.
Struggling to find a course aimed at anyone at all.

Gosh I didn't actually mean for that to come across quite that nippy.

I spent the 7 years I was with my ex defending the need for women only spaces and am thoroughly sick of the discussion. However that obviously doesn't mean everyone else is /should be

What I was trying to say is if you don't feel the need for them you are one of the lucky ones but please don't begrudge them to someone who does.

I don't feel the need for buses in Manchester but I'm not offended that they exist

In an ideal world it wouldn't be necessary, however on a oath toward an ideal world, enough women need to be able to speak /act knowledgeably on these subjects that the assumption they are men's subjects is eroded.

In theory they would gradually become less necessary, lets hope

I did a women-only course and it was brilliant, not intimidating at all. I tried my hand at things I would not have done otherwise.

I did a women-only course and it was brilliant, not intimidating at all. I tried my hand at things I would not have done otherwise.

If they are finding women are being put off the mixed gender courses, maybe they should look at fixing the problems there instead of segregating?

This.

I've got to admit, and I'm sorry to womankind for admitting it, but on the whole most men tend to be physically stronger than me.

So for say a bricklaying or plastering course, I think specific techniques based on this fact may be beneficial to me, but not to men.

Saffyz but that assumes that the problem is the course itself, which often it isn't, but things that have happened previously in the woman's life.

Probably because then we can get on with learning instead of having men around talking out of their arses pretending to know what they're talking about.

And the men probably drop out if a woman is on their class because we learn faster.

Just guessing.

I practice a male dominated martial art and some men can be either patronising or feel threatened (most who don't attend my class and aren't used to us women).

Lweji
"Probably because then we can get on with learning instead of having men around talking out of their arses pretending to know what they're talking about.

And the men probably drop out if a woman is on their class because we learn faster."

That is a fairly major generalisation.

I think there was a study which suggested girls at school learn better in female only classes (and possibly that boys learn better in mixed, I forget)

I agree that if learning in a male environment is off-putting because of misogyny then that has to be addressed but even if it is it would take a while for the perception to change so women would still not be signing up as much to find out.

Also what Herrena said.

If there is a need then it is good that we have them, but we shouldn't need them so you're right to be a bit pissed off.

A friend recently trained in a trade and now works on building sites. From what she says there is a little misogynistic treat every day.

Boney, it was tongue in cheek. :)

Fair enough to have single gender classes, though I'd be put off if it were advertised in a patronising way.

I did a women's woodworking class when I was 16, it was fab. The women running it also did girls classes, for kids as young as five - they were immensely chuffed at how their tiny pupils would happily launch into building stuff bigger than they were.

Apparently when the first cohorts hit secondary school & school woodworking lessons, the male teachers didn't know what had hit 'em: all these tiny, very competent & utterly confident eleven year old girls blew their minds.

As for "they'll need to cope once they're working":

a) these sound like they were probably leisure classes, so not relevant
B) even if not, it's a lot easier to learn when you're in an environment where you have a whole range of different levels of competence from people of your gender, especially when that subject has a lot of stereotyping attached.

Seriously, look up stereotype threat: it actually impairs your performance if you're constantly conscious of being in the minority that's "not supposed to be good at this".

Can someone help me understand what is and isn't fair: women-only classes for building/allied trades/car maintenance, women-only charity races, women-only swimming/gym/pilates/yoga sessions, women-only cooking lessons and women-only meditation sessions?