To expect DH pay towards household bills?!

[glossyflower]

I'm feeling rather cross.
When me and now DH moved in together, he paid £300 a month to me, as the house we live in I own, so all bills are in my name (and still are).
Then he decided he wanted to do an MA which I fully supported him doing. After a while he couldn't afford the rent so I was fine with it as he was working towards something.
Since the course is now long over, we have married and have a 4 month old baby.
I work full time but currently on maternity. I can't afford to take the full year off so I'm going back when DD is 6 months old.
DH was working in a crappy wage job but recently got a better office based job for slightly more salary.
Recently I have said to him I need some money again each month, £300. Initially he agreed. Now he's saying he needs to wait this month as he's only just started the better paid job.
This morning I said, should I go back to work full time? He knows full well I don't want to go back full time - I do three 12hr shifts a week and ideally would love to have just 2 shifts.
He turned round and said I should be going back full time as we can't afford otherwise. I said I could afford it if he contributed more towards the bills and he needs to give me £300 per month again. He then said he couldn't afford it as he spends so much on our food shopping.
BTW £300 per month is no where near even half the bills so I am being generous.
I am the main earner, and he mostly buys our food.
I can afford to pay the bills but by the end of the month I am struggling and I have no money to do anything for myself. I often can't afford to put diesel in my car, I drive and he doesn't. A couple of weeks ago he had some time off and wanted us to go to the Peak District, 2.5 hours away. I told him only if he could pay the fuel as I had literally no money, I went to put £40 in but then asked if I should put £50 in, he told me he couldn't afford the extra tenner. In fact I struggled a couple of weeks ago to find £10 to get my hair cut whilst DH has several gigs he's going to in a couple of months time and goes out on camping/climbing trips with his friend.
I've never understood with married people, the my money and your money thing, it should be wholly joint, I have said I would like a joint bank account and he's agreed but it never happens.
Recently I told him I wanted to sit down together and look at both our finances closely to see how much spare money we should have. I couldn't get him to sit with me, and all I got was vague answers like this loan is approx this much, I don't know exactly.
From this I gauged that £300 would be fair to him and he'd still have spare money for himself each month. This would also mean I could have spare money for myself.
I feel like a total doormat.

[Dackyduddles]

He's hiding debt. You have to nail this. Sorry.

[Blu]

That's the spirit, Glossy - stand your ground tonight and be assertive. Enough is enough, and don't let him benefit from what you identify as your own issues re looking after people. As a family and parents of your baby you will be stronger as a team, not as 2 people all relying on you.

Get all the bills in joint names and paid of a joint household account. Make all joint household and baby related payments from that account too. That's what DP and I do. If we are out and about and buy clothes for DS we use the jpint household account card, Ditto for family meals out, petrol for family journeys etc. So make sure a good contingency goes nto that account - and as a family, between you, you have enough.

Good luck. stay clear and focussed on what you want and what is fair.

[Bearbehind]

OP, as others have said, you are being taken for a ride but it seems only time will prove that to you. You do everything and pay for everything- no wonder he is happy!

In the mean time DO NOT SET UP A JOINT ACCOUNT WITH HIM, if he is hiding debts and you become financially linked it will screw up your credit rating when if the shit hits the fan.

[MrsKoala]

Well i understand then Glossy as my DH is exactly the same (2 masters but can't do basic things - and people on here will tell you they can but they are just lazy etc, but unless you see someone struggle, really tearfully struggle you don't know what it's like). BUT just because it is hard it is no reason not to deal with it. PILs always gave DH a free ride because he was dyslexic as 'it would be cruel to expect him to do things'

This is why we had to have more strict rules in place and me take over all finances otherwise it would have ended our marriage. I also explained the costs of living alone just in case he felt he would be better off without me! We have agreements with chores and reciprocal free time now too.

ATM he is not understanding the reality of money in any way. I can say to DH 'that will cost £100 but we only have £50' and he will say okay then lets buy it. So some people do find it impossible to deal with numbers or money - in which case he needs to accept you will manage it all. What i hate is when people deny there is a problem, or arrogantly insist on carrying on without accepting someone has better skills in this area. You really need to lay it on the line for him.

[FatimaLovesBread]

If he earns £16k then he's got circa £1k coming in each month. How the hell can't he afford to contribute?!

[StuntGirl]

Astonishing. Some people seem to love keeping themselves in shitty situations. Fascinating.

[MrsKoala]

Oh and £16k is over a thousand a month. Even if he spends £200 on 'bits' of food. Where is the rest. You need to see his statements.

[tanfastic]

My dh was moaning recently about money and making suggestions about how I had more disposable income than him. I presented him with a list of my outgoings and incomings and he soon went off with this tail between his legs. I suggest you spell it out.

[MrsKoala]

I hardly think that is fair StuntGirl. What do you think the alternative is?

[LessMissAbs]

I'd be getting legal advice on the house. Even though his name is not on the deeds, you are married and therefore your joint assets could be at risk from his debt

Can I point out this just isn't true. If you haven't taken out a loan, you cannot be liable on it just because your spouse has done so. Spouses retain their own legal identity.

Its actually a well known practice to put the house in the name of one spouse only if the other spouse is embarking on a risky business venture. If that spouse is then bankrupted, the house should be same from bankruptcy proceedings, provided the transfer took place a reasonable time before the bankruptcy.

The only risk to you from his debts is if you divorce and he factors them into his settlement somehow.

[Inertia]

Glossy, coupled with the assertive attitude you need clear evidence . You will need all the facts and figures showing all outgoings - regular bills, mortgage, car running and maintenance costs, the food you have to buy to make actual meals with, baby food / milk / nappies / clothing / activities , seasonal things like holidays and Christmas / birthday presents, debt repayment, household repairs and maintenance - and income

He needs to provide payslips and bank statements. Don't allow him to fob you off.

[Gruffalump]

So how did your discussion go?

[msrisotto]

He's taking you for a ride. I hope that he came to his senses during your conversation.....

[glossyflower]

I'm just off out so will reply in full later.
He is a knobber. But I think afterwards he thought about it and felt bad.

[Nanny0gg]

"We're happy together otherwise" I'm not bloody surprised he's happy! He's got a wife who already owned a house, has paid all his bills forever, has bankrolled his MA course and paid off his debts, looks after his child, still pays the bills even on mat leave with no income, drives him everywhere, and does the cooking and housework. Meanwhile he gets to spend all his money on hobbies and travel, runs up debt, pays nothing for his own keep apart from whatever milk and bread will fit on a bike, pays nothing for his child, does nothing except fun stuff for his child, begrudges looking after the baby when his wife has errands to run, and refuses to either pay his fair share or discuss finances. He's got the life of Riley, why the hell would he want anything to change?

Inertia's post bears repeating.

And you want to do it the wrong way round, OP. Don't put into the joint pot proportionally - put everything in the joint pot. Deduct all expenses and then share out what's left proportionately.

Otherwise I guarantee, he will not change what he does.

[Nanny0gg]

He is a knobber. But I think afterwards he thought about it and felt bad.

Oh. Good.

[glossyflower]

Ok so here was basically what he said.

I sat down with the laptop and paper and pen and wrote down all our expenditure.
I didn't have a go at him I just was firm.
I asked him to log on to his account, he said he already checked it earlier and knew his outgoings.
So I didn't actually see his statement
I asked why he didn't want me to see his statement was he hiding something. He said as a joke he didn't want me to see all the prostitutes he was hiring. I just glared. It was a joke but this was a serious conversation.
So anyway his take home is about £1100 a month. His outgoings are £570. Just under £400 of that is that 18k loan. The other stuff are his credit card (paying more than minimum payment), life insurance (only covers me as he was unable to get insurance due to medical problem - I told him to cancel this as we can get insurance together and probably cheaper, but he didn't want to cancel) and his mobile phone.
That leaves approx £500 left over.
He made a point of saying shopping this month had cost him £380.
I said we should plan our meals better and do Internet shopping. He said he doesn't like Internet shopping as if they don't have an item it's replaced with something he doesn't want.
I totalled my current pay (maternity - when I go back to work I should have between £200 and £500 more it varies) and my expenditure (I say mine but I mean what comes from my account) totals £1600. That's including childcare that hasn't started yet. £1350 without childcare.
That includes, gas, electric, water, council tax, mortgage, mobile phone, home phone, broadband, credit card, car tax, car insurance, nursing licence, union fees, car breakdown cover, pet food, nappies, diesel.. All I can think of right now but I'm sure there's more.
He was shocked to see that amount.
I asked him if he thought it was it was fair but he said it was like I was saying he doesn't contribute at all and shopping is quite expensive.
He said that we have always had this arrangement, as I earn more than him.
I said it wasn't like this to begin with, he paid £300 a month until he started his masters but he denied that.
He said his loan is quite big, I told him that was not my problem as when he got the loan I strongly advised him not to but he did anyway. I told him he would not be able to live anywhere else for the amount he pays.
Then he mentioned he needed spending money for himself and I said that I did too. He said that whenever I do have an opportunity to do something I don't do it.
No I don't because I know realistically its unaffordable.
Then he pointed out I had spent some money recently, a few weeks ago on 3 items of clothing. He said he can't afford new clothes (I won't even go there because I know it will piss off you mumsnetters even more!)
Yes I spent £25 in Asda on clothes because I needed some new tops that fit me nicely (i have a 4 month old baby and I am breastfeeding) and that was only after I had sold my old car for £350
Later I told him I knew I had mug written all over my face and one of these days enough will be enough.
He shook his head, gave me a hug and said sorry.
Not quite the outcome I wanted but I am going to talk to him again.

I'm awaiting the onslaught

[stickingattwo]

Needs to grow up. DP and I used to pay into a joint account, splitting the cost proportionally - highest earner paid % more depending on how much more they earned. Now we have 2 kids, childcare etc we put all our salary in the joint/savings etc except a personal 'allowance' each - the same amount BTW even though I earn 2x Dp's salary.
If we have something big to buy or need extra cas that's fine but discussed. That way no-one feels like a 2nd class citizen in the relationship.
You need to sit down look at the ingoings and outgoings then sort out who pays what - or go ahed with joint account. You're married so the law pretty much considers you financially responsible for each other.

[5amisnotmorning]

My mum always said that sorry means that I won't do it again. But nothing has changed so he is not sorry at all is he?

[StuntGirl]

I think it's a pretty fair summary of someone in denial koala, yes. Look how many excuses she kept making for him - on £1k per month and he can't contribute to family life? The logic is so arse backwards it's unreal.

Anyway, I digress, because she's spoken to him. Good job glossy. So it seems you didn't actually get chance to draw up your new budget then? Ok that's the next step.

He likes to throw up roadblocks left right and centre doesn't he? Can't show you his statement because he's already checked it and he knows. Can't do internet shopping because he doesn't like the substitutions. Can't possibly contribute any more because he's bought food this month.

I personally would draw up the family budget and present it to him fait accompli. If I worked it out right from your post you have a family income of approx. £2700pcm, you are going overdrawn so presumably your wages are gone by the end of the month and he has £500 spare. Madness!

If you put your wages together to pay all bills and outgoings then split the difference of what's left and you should have £250ish each to spend. So much fairer. How could he argue those two scenarios with a straight face?

[jacks365]

He's going to try to squirm out of this. He can't realistically object to the two of you having equal spends after meeting essential expenses so I would suggest going that route.

[scallopsrgreat]

Seriously. You need to see his statements. This guy is gaslighting you to high heaven.

Have you spoken to him about a joint account? I can imagine his response to that and I imagine that will be very telling as to how he rates you and your child.

Anything you suggested he either refused to do or found an excuse not to do it. Nothing that this guy is saying or doing shows he wants the situation to improve for you. He is very definitely telling you what he is like. Believe him.

[EhricLovesTeamQhuay]

How on earth is he spending £380 a month on food shopping, plus you are doing it too, for two people and a breastfed baby?!
When DS was tiny I did our shop for £50 a week.
You need to add up all your essential outgoings (sadly you have to include his loans and CCs in that, but make sure he isn't using CCs any longer) and your total income. Deduct outgoings from income, make all payments from one account (yours probably, I wouldn't get a joint account that he can access and fuck up) and divide what's left equally. Set a food budget per week and stick to it.

[StuntGirl]

I agree £380 on bread and bits is wtf. That's £95 per week on...what? What has he bought?

[YourHandInMyHand]

You STILL haven't seen his statements! OP you need to see his bank and credit card statements. I bet he has way more debt than he's admitting to.

A nice printed bank statement would also show all his unnecessary spending I bet. Does he get them in the post or has he gone paperless? If he's paperless insist ho logs in so you can see.

You need to keep going with this, don't be fobbed off yet again.