To want us all to be treated like human beings while we are in labour

[Itchywoolyjumper]

Some of you might remember the internal examination thread which ended up with so many women telling the stories of the poor experiences at the hands of health care professionals during their pregnancies, labours and in the post natal period.
Many women spoke of lack of consent, poor communication and lack of respect from those who they should have been able to trust in their most vulnerable hours.
One poster spoke of being held down to be stitched because the pain relief had not yet taken hold and she was writhing in pain, while an other described being made to feel like "the dead meat around the foetus".
Its 2013, these and all the stories like them on the original thread should have been consigned to the history books long ago but instead we are being made to live them.

In response to this some of us are trying to start a campaign to bring this type of treatment to an end.
We have three broad aims:

1. to help empower and support women making complaints against HCPs involved in their obstetric care.
   
   
2. to help educate HCPs to examine their practice and improve their treatment of pregnant, labouring and post natal women.
   
   
3. to lobby to bring about legislation to protect women against obstetric violence.
   
   Some amazing posters have started a website from where we hope to make a start on these aims, you can join us at:
   
   maternity-rights.webs.com/

[stripeyspots]

Shouldn't have been

[CreatureRetorts]

I had an anterior lip but MW asked me first and certainly wasnt elbow deep.

It's so bloody difficult to complain in the NHS - if it were easier there would be a lot less of this horror.

[TattiePants]

Whothefuckfarted that sounds exactly like my labour with DS. After 2 hrs of pushing I had to get out of the pool as my contractions had pretty much stopped. After trying various positions and still no contractions I was put on a drip and given pethadine. It was only then that they realised DS was back to back and wasn't descending.

The doctor tried to manually turn him in the same way as you described (in up to elbow, took quite a while and hurt like hell). The difference is, I was told what was going to happen and the midwife strongly recommended I kept hold of the gas and air. They absolutely should have told you what was happening and why they believed that was the right thing to do.

[PeriodFeatures]

Fantastic. I am going to have a look straight away.

My midwife was here yesterday and she is an amazing women. She was very very honest with us about some of the practice that goes on in hospital and gave a vivid account of some of the experiences women have. She is also articulate and analytical about the cause of these problems.

She is supporting me to have a Home Birth and I am very grateful for the advice she has given. I am also prepared for the reality of hospital if I have to go there.

She is in a similar profession so It was 'o.k' to have this honest discussion.

I am going to pass on this info to her if it resonates with me.

[Trapper]

Can I suggest a fourth objective relating to education/training for birthing partners?

[BalloonSlayer]

Perhaps part of the campaign could include proper training for birth partners "how to be a useful advocate for your DW/DP/DD/Friend during childbirth and labour."

The stories are horrific and I feel so sorry for women going through those experiences. However I do think that if you are beside yourself with pain you may not have the fullest grasp of what is being said to you. An attempt could have been made to explain/obtain consent but the woman was in so much agony she wouldn't hear a brass band! There is a real role here for the birth partner to be a go-between.

[BalloonSlayer]

x post with Trapper

[confuddledDOTcom]

Please, all of you, come and tell your story on Maternity Rights! this is the sort of thing we need.

Last December I was in hospital at 29 weeks, I arrived late Monday and was on the drugs to stop the contractions and steroids. They kept putting me on the monitor but unless you were watching during contractions you couldn't tell I was having any as they barely registered. On Thursday the drugs had stopped and things picked up but I slept all night, which was a pattern I recognised. Mum and my husband went home to freshen up, then about midday I went to the toilet and realised I was bleeding. I pressed my call button and the midwife went off to find a doctor. She found one on their way to see me to tell me I could go home - Mum was furious with her and said she'd have looked an idiot if I'd delivered a 29 weeker in the car (I wasn't at my home hospital either so I could have been half hour from the hospital). I was effaced and delivered within two hours. Even when I was pushing baby out they still weren't picking up my contractions!

Forgetfulmog - you may not have gone into labour but they were still messing about inside of you. It's going to leave a mark.

Shro - she should have done whatever you consented to! That was disgusting and if it's recent enough and you haven't, please complain! The water is the only thing that usually can't be guaranteed but you can turn anything you don't want down.

WentOnABearHunt - are you a midwife?

[confuddledDOTcom]

Trapper, I had added that on the other thread but forgot to put it on the website.

[ratbagcatbag]

I liked my midwives way of examinations. I arrived as waters had gone beforehand, she wanted me to have the induction drip, I said not until epidural in, she sorted it first, but then I wasn't budging on that.

Before she examined me she explained if I needed her to stop please say so, she would stop moving her hand but leave it there not moving unless I asked her to remove it.

When she checked how far dilated I was she asked if she could do a sweep as well. Once I asked her to stop,shr did, instantly, waited until I relaxed and then asked if she could continue. I felt in control and it wasn't in and out. When I was swearing explaining I was in agony she got me a top up of epidural and when I screamed I needed to push (I dilated really quickly, less than four hours) she checked straight away and then explained I was ready to go.

I'm lucky though as others at the same hospital have had far far worse experiences.

[ShotgunNotDoingThePans]

Great idea - just to say you might want to do a bit more proof-reading:

'...the experience for many women is being made even worst by the lack of...'

Really?

[SchroSawMargeryDaw]

Went Thanks for that, I did have prolonged rupture of membranes but had been on anti biotics since it started and it wasn't the pool, it was the bath (just a normal one) in the room I wasn't allowed in.

It was only 5 weeks ago and I was planning on complaining about her anyway for the comment to DP.

[SchroSawMargeryDaw]

I was in natural labour as well, no synto drip at that point.

[farewellfigure]

Thanks for setting up the website. I'm in, and I look forward with baited breath to see how much a group of voilated and angry women can achieve. I think this is absolutely brilliant!

[LucyBTA]

Hello ladies. Just to let you know that I'm a volunteer for the Birth Trauma Association which also campaigns on this very issue. We have some useful info on our website www.birthtraumaassociation.org.uk. I'll also be tweeting a link to this campaign and to the original thread from our twitter feed @birthtrauma. Always very heartening to know that we are not alone in feeling so strongly about this! Best of luck!

[Hensinthehedgerow]

Please start a compaign. I'm going private next time.

[MylinhMumsnet]

Hi everyone

We thought you might find this page on legal rights during pregnancy and childbirth helpful. It has guidance and answers to some of the most commonly-asked questions on MN threads over the years, as well as details of the excellent Birthrights (a human rights organisation for child-bearing women). Do take a look and share, and feel free to leave feedback on this thread or contact Birthrights directly via their free advice service.

Thanks, Mylinh MNHQ

[confuddledDOTcom]

Shotgun, I know there's a few things on the page that need to be adjusted, I didn't write it, I just copied it over. I put it in quickly to be a start and not had chance to go through it.

Shro, definitely complain and let us know how you get on.

Thanks again Lucy and Mylinh!

[babybythesea]

My birth with dd2 was nowhere near this bad, nothing that could be termed assault, but I could have done with a nicer midwife.

Went into labour and because I was strep B positive I was told I needed to be in hospital a minimum of 4 hours beforehand. I phoned the hospital but they didn't want me in yet as the contractions weren't regular.
Over the next 24 hours, the contractions got more and more powerful but not regular - phoned again, told not to come in until they were ten minutes apart for at least an hour.
Upshot was, that by the time they did settle into a rhythm, and we had made it down to the hospital, I arrived only 2 hours before the baby did and in a lot of pain.

The midwife just was unfriendly from start to finish. Put me in a labour room, and then left straight away, while DH went to park the car, so I was sitting on my own with no pain relief or offers of any, while I waited for something to happen. When she came back, she asked if I had something to wear during labour and when I said yes, she said "Well put it on then", and stood watching. Bearing in mind what she was about to witness it was stupid to feel a bit awkward about changing in front of her, but I did.
Then I needed to go on a drip. I asked for pain relief - she said not until the drip was in. That process seemed to take forever as she had to have three goes at it. By now the contractions were very close together. I asked her to stop trying to get the drip in while I had a contraction - she did, but said "the quicker I get this done the quicker you can have pain relief".
I had gas and air (eventually). During most of this stage she sat with her back to me at a counter, looking at paperwork or something, not a word from her until I told her I needed to push (about an hour later).

I had pretty bad SPD and told her this at the start. When she tried to put me into a position I knew would hurt she tried initially to over-ride me, asking DH to move my leg. He refused, and I stayed where I was (on my side). She took the gas and air away and when I said I needed it, she said "You're fine." No real support or encouragement, and it just felt dismissive. If it's better to do the pushing without it, then fine, but talk to me about it instead of dismissing me. And then, when pushing, if I stopped for breath, she'd say "You need to keep pushing. The baby needs you to help her and you've stopped." And then when the baby arrived I was emotional (who isn't) and begged to hold her - one of my fears was that with DD1 I had a fair bit of medical intervention and was so far out of it that I don't remember holding her (and although I did hold her, the midwife didn't let her go as they didn't trust me to keep hold of her, and she was taken off me very quickly). I was desperate to hold DD2 before she was cleaned and dressed. I asked three times "Please can I hold my baby?" and was told "Wait a minute, just be patient." I don't know what she was doing in that time, and it only took about 30 seconds, but it felt forever while I was waiting.

It just would have been nice to deal with someone who could smile a bit, and didn't treat me as though I was a slightly annoying inconvenience.

[Llareggub]

I was strongly encouraged to have a VBAC with my 2nd DS and I agreed, despite requiring constant monitoring due to GD which meant I had to remain almost prone on the bed throughout.

I had a marvellous MW who was there throughout. Following delivery, she finished her shift and the most awful MW joined me. She tripped all over the place, was distracted and forgetful. She then told me she was going to stitch me up. There was no way I wanted her anywhere near me, particularly in order to perform such a sensitive procedure. I tried to tell her calmly but she told me that she had to do it. After a long labour I felt the only option available to me was to lose it completely. Reader, they called in a surgeon and he was calm and focused, the total opposite to the distracted MW who did nothing to convince me of her competence.

Following this, I was told to carry my baby back to the postnatal ward. I was weak from hunger and labour and felt certain that I could not do this safely. I told her that I could not and would need a cot and she snapped at me and told me that all new mothers should carry their babies after birth. I refused, and told her that she should bloody well listen to her patients and safeguard the health and safety of these new babies.

Not everyone is as stroppy as me.

My second tale relates to the gestational diabetes I had during my second pregnancy. I was told by the MW that my baby would HAVE to go to SCBU following delivery. I had a very bad experience with a nurse from SCBU with my first baby, who told me that unless I FF my jaundiced baby she would get him taken away from me.

I researched the NICE guidelines for babies born to mothers with GD and discovered that the hospital's practice was contrary to NICE guidelines. I met with the Head of Midwifery and told her and my consultant that my son was not to removed from my side unless there was a clinical need, and that I did not want the nurse from my previous birth to involved in any way with the care of me or my baby.

It took weeks to get this agreed and even then I was told that it would be subject to staff availability on the ward to carry out the clinical checks required of my son following delivery. As a result, I told every member of staff involved in my delivery of my wishes and did not particularly trust anyone to respect what was clearly documented in my birthplan by me, even though there was a letter from the Head of Midwifery attached to it confirming our agreement.

My perspective is that women are ignored during the birth process, with HCP demonstrating arrogant and damaging behaviour that has lasting damage to women. I was traumatised by the behaviour of this nurse at a very vulnerable point in my life.

[Snuppeline]

ConfuddledDOTcom Thank you for the TBRAINS advise - that is very good advise. I am getting increasingly anxious about my impending labour now and this piece of advise at least makes me feel a little more empowered. So again, thank you, that really helps.

I am so saddened by all of these stories. Thinking of the birth of my dd today has been a bit upsetting and I remembered that I was not believed when I wanted to start pushing (after having been put on drip which they said would take 20-30 minutes to take effect but in reality took effect after 5 minutes). So what I did was say I needed the toilet. MW's (two in the room) tried to deny me the right to go to the toilet but I was assertive for once. I went to the toilet to get away from them all and thought to myself I was going to shut that door and have the baby in peace by myself. I was in the loo until they dragged me out but at least then they believed I needed to push and allowed me to do so. I know they need to know it is safe before pushing can commence and I did not do any pushing on the loo but not being listened too made me so fed up I needed to get away from them and all that medical intervnetion. I just felt I like an animal trapped and like a trapped animal I tried to get to safety.

I think for this impending birth I NEED to get into a birting pool to be safe. And to remember the TBRAINS advise, it shall have to become my mantra

[Forgetfulmog]

Thanks op for replying - apologies for only just resounding. I'm shocked at some of the stories on here.

A bit of an update for me - I've had a response back from the head of mw at my hospital (about my concern of how things were handled immediately post birth - haven't yet raised my concern about the lack of consent pre-birth). The mw confirmed that I definitely should have had skin-to-skin & also that I should have been given a chance to bf (all I had was about a 5 min chance where baby was wrapped in towels & placed on boob & mw shoved boob in baby's mouth before going on that she wasn't feeding & would have to be fed formula (against my wishes but I did consent (forced) as what else could I do?). Anyway this mw acted against UNICEF guidelines & is going to be reminded of them so hopefully it won't happen again. I've been asked to sit on the Maternity Liason Committee to help improve patient care & I intend to do this.

Personally I'm still struggling with the memories around my daughters birth & mine wasn't as traumatic as some of the stories I've read on here so god only knows how those women are coping.

No mother should be traumatised by the birth of their child in 2013. In a developed & wealthy country. It's appalling

[Catsize]

Happy to join a campaign. Gave birth in Dec 2011 and still haunted by some stuff. You asked for 'legal bods', and I am one, but not sure how much help I can be in this regard. We will see!

[Rebelrebel]

I feel strongly that when people keep saying that "all that matters is a healthy mother and baby" they should be directed back to threads like this. It does matter how you give birth, it does matter that your needs are responded to, it does matter that your choices are respected. Sometimes women accept what is happening, even if it feels wrong, because they've been persuaded that the health care professionals always know best and always have their best interests at heart. The experiences recounted here show that this isn't always the case, sadly. And being treated like this can affect women in so many, lasting ways. It just isn't good enough.

[confuddledDOTcom]

Catsize, I'm sure you'll be really helpful.

Rebel, it's the worst thing you can say because you add guilt onto the mother who is suffering.

Forgetful, I'm glad to hear you're getting somewhere!

Snuppeline, I hope it helps. There's a better explanation of it over at Maternity Rights!