to take my DS out of pre school because they say he is needs 'extra support'.

[Elvisina]

My 3 yr old DS has always been on the lively side! His idea of heaven is being allowed to just run through a park, woods or along a beach, preferably with some older children. He very rarely shows an interest in any kind of ?mark making? (despite our best efforts ? we have enough arts and crafts stuff in this house to start up our own nursery). He had been quite a few months behind with his speech but his language has recently taken off in a big way! A recent visit to a speech therapist reassured me he is/will be fine.
Anyway, this April he started at a local pre school for 2 and a half days a week. It?s a new pre school that is attached to a primary school which only opened 2 years ago. They?ve just received a very good Ofsted and the resources are great. I was so delighted to get him in there and he absolutely loves it, running into the playground each morning with a massive smile on his face. However, over the last few weeks, I?ve been feeling increasingly uneasy about how they think he?s doing. Whenever I made a friendly enquiry to his teacher I?ve had rather crisp, negative responses such as ?He doesn?t like joining in activities, especially if they?re led by an adult. He?s just not really ready? and ?I?m like a broken record having to tell him all the time to put his coat on?. Nothing positive (and I know I?m biased but he is damn cute!). Last week I decided to phone up for a chat about how he?s doing, basically expecting some reassurance along the lines of, ?he?s happy and friendly and we?re working on getting him to use his ?listening ears?? etc however it turned into a serious talk about how they have been preparing documentation to get him ?extra support? because he wants to play outside all the time and doesn?t want to join in the teacher led activities. Language such as ?he needs a different learning path? was used. Apparently he stood out from the other children who were all happy to listen to teacher led activities. I was devastated and I know it?s ridiculous but I cried! It really hurt that they felt he was so different from the others. I mentioned that I had noticed there were loads more girls than boys and she said she hadn?t noticed this as a particular issue but in his class picture on their website there are 9 girls and 3 boys!

My DH thinks we should just accept the extra help and not worry about it but I now feel as though perhaps this isn?t the place for my DS. I don?t even feel as though they like him very much. I took him out of a lovely, friendly nursery where they seemed to really ?get? him and like him to go to this new pre school. I?m now considering sending him back there. Thing is, he loves it and I could be doing him a disservice by not letting him have this ?extra support?. I honestly hadn?t realised that he would be required to take part in so many teacher led activities. I thought he got to play all day! What?s wrong with him wanting to play outside for 2 hours pretending to be a pirate? (I?m a teacher myself ? secondary ? so should have known better really). I keep looking at my wonderful boy who I honestly, honestly, honestly don?t think there is anything wrong with and feeling upset that they?ve made me feel as though he is somehow ?failing?/different. I?m going in next week to observe him and discuss his ?learning path? but actually I just feel like I want to remove him. Would that be ridiculously unreasonable of me? Am I just being too sensitive?

[mrsjay]

f they start with plenty of time, they can take baby steps.

that,

[noblegiraffe]

Thinking about the teacher-led stuff my DS does at preschool, like listening to stories, singing songs, discussing topics, painting particular animals, making cakes - a child that doesn't participate in teacher-led activities and instead wanting to just play, is actually going to be missing out on a lot of nice things. It would be a shame not to encourage him.

[Branleuse]

i think people might be a bit unecessarily frightened by what extra support might mean.

It probably means they will put an extra TA in the class who will play with him and build a relationship with him, and be able to take him outside to do extra things on his own terms when the classroom setting DOES get too much for him.

Both of my sons need extra support. Both are lovely happy fun loving boys. Its not about forcing them to conform AT ALL. Its about helping them access everything theyre entitled to in the same way that everyone else does.

Its a fairly common scenario for nurseries to not notice special needs and pass it off as just boys, and to avoid helping, and its also pretty common for parents to have an emotional response and to be in complete denial.

Its much much less common for schools to outright offer and suggest extra support when its not necessary.

This doesnt mean there is something "wrong" with your child, just that they are aware that not all childrens needs are the same, and there isnt a one size fits all approach to school, and he probably needs a little extra support in certain areas. It certainly wont be all day every day. If he wants to run about and play, then he will need an extra TA to watch him, wont he? You cant expect the class teacher to leave the rest of the class constantly to bring him back, or for him to be unsupervised and running round the corridors, however charming you find it.

[ThreeMusketeers]

This' institutionalised' raising of children is quite a sad state of affairs.
What happened to carefree childhood?

[mrsjay]

think people might be a bit unecessarily frightened by what extra support might mean.

I think so parents will panic at the thought of extra support,

[schobe]

I love the idea of letting them run free, but my DS would still be running free with no language or any other skills other than good tree-climbing ones as an adult, sadly.

I really think you've nothing to lose with GOOD early intervention. It's the 'good' part that's tricky.

[ThreeMusketeers]

But surely the language skills are something parents teach their children?!

Talking to them, explaining the meaning of the difficult/new/complicated words, reading to them often, playing with them etc? If necessary, doing linguistic exercises with them if there seems to be a problem.
This is how a child learns the language. Nothing difficult or complicated.

OPs child is coming on leaps and bound with his speech, fantastic!
Our children were late to talk yet once they took off, they spoke in full grammatically correct sentences.
Their vocabularies are 'way beyond their years' and 'unusually rich for their age' according to school reports.

Can't expect the school to raise your children and teach them basic skills, that's what parents do.

[shewhowines]

I see this issue as twofold.

1. He prefers to play outside and not join in teacher lead activities. Fine and not a problem at this age. IMO no intervention required.
   

1. He won't follow basic instructions ie I?m like a broken record having to tell him all the time to put his coat on
   

This to me is far more worrying and I think it needs addressing. If my child continuously ignored me and had no respect for me at home and/or did the same at nursery, then I would support the nursery wholeheartedly. Even a 3 year old needs boundaries and needs to do what they are told when necessary. If this isn't sorted out when they are young then they will have problems at school and you may have problems at home, even if you haven't now. They do need to learn to respect authority.

Only you can judge the your child Op. Observe him at the nursery. Does he occassionally ignore instuctions from the teachers, or is it a bigger problem where he hardly ever does as he is told? What is he like at home? Be honest. A bit of mischieveousness and cheekiness at 3 is fine, not so as they get older. Does he need help with behavious management there or at home? You'll do him a favour if you nip any potential problems in the bud, now.

[StickyFloor]

I understand parents nervous about accepting extra help as they don't want their child to be labelled. But, I have witnessed children get to Yr2 and Yr3 before parents accepted help as a result of that fear. The irony is that those children have already been labelled as "naughty" and "immature" and that favourite euphemism "very lively" etc by this time because they weren't getting the help they needed to settle into a structured environment.

As a parent of a child with clear SN I have seen the other side where it is a constant battle to get preschool and school to sit up and organise themselves to provide appropriate help, so I would say that if they are offering help they must be pretty sure that he needs some help right now.

It is all very well criticising the school system and saying this is too young for formality and structure etc but the reality is that after 3 more terms of preschool this child will be starting school. And if he can't do as he is told, listen to instructions, sit quietly and listen to the teacher etc etc he is going to really struggle. You have a year to gradually work on these things which is plenty of time, so surely this is a good thing?

[ThreeMusketeers]

Isn't this OPs duty to ensure her child learns to follow instructions?!

With age-appropriate explanations as to why it is important to do what's requested by parent or teacher, repeated and repeated at every opportunity - until it clicks.

It will take some time as 3 year olds do forget, but with little effort, this is not a problem, but parental responsibility.

No 'extra support' needed.

[halcyondays]

perhaps the problem with him wanting to play outside the whole time is that if there are e.g 2 members of staff and 26 children, they dont have enough staff to just let them all do what they want. the ratios are usually either 1;13 or 1:8 depending on whether there is a qualified nursery teacher. so they do need to have some kind of structure, free play, snacks, outdoor play, crafts, story time etc. How's it going to work if little Johnny wants to spend all his time outside, little Jimmy wants to paint for the entire session and other children want to do something completely different?

I think it"s a good thing that they are trying to get extra support if they think he needs it, as tbh not all nurseries would be suggesting it, some places would basically just tell you that your child wouldnt do what he was told but wouldnt actually offer much in the way of help.

[MrsOakenshield]

also - telling him to put his coat on - maybe let him go out without his coat and find out for himself if he's cold or wet? Really, is this something that needs support?

[Branleuse]

some people here live in a fantasy world and obviously have no experience of SN kids and what a battle it can be to actually get help when it is needed. Absolute paranoia that they are wanting to label children and dole out extra help just for the hell of it, or that theyve never had to deal with a general spritely 3 year old boy before.

[Branleuse]

Also pretty laughable that someone thinks a GP would be mre qualified to recognise extra needs in a small child than a class teacher

[halcyondays]

if they let one child go out without their coat on, then other children won"t want to put theirs on, and then when they get cold and wet, their parents wont be happy. I don't always insist theta my dc wear their coats as I can just bring them with me, but they know that they have to put them on at school if they are told to.

[ThreeMusketeers]

But OPs child does not have SN!!!!!

[Vagndidit]

I'll admit that I did fall to pieces when DS was issued an IEP from his school nursery teacher last year. He was barely 3.5 when he started and really struggled with a lot of things, especially with self-care skills, listening and being more independent. I took criticisms of his development as a personal knock against my parenting style, which was silly really. They just wanted to help.

DS has since been dx with dyspraxia, btw, which has taken a load of pressure off my shoulders in a bizarre sort of way.

Good luck to you!

[pigletmania]

Tbh he is only 3 a baby nit a school age child, that is what 3 year olds do. He sounds to me like a normal pre schooler. I would remive him and find somewhere else. It does not sound like a good place for him, i would worry that this could affect the way they are towards him

[propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS]

In your shoes I would move him to another setting and try again. If you get the same feedback there too then I suppose you then need to take it on board and get extra support.

[pigletmania]

I seriously would take him out and out him in his orevuous nursery

[halcyondays]

Did the other nursery have more staff? was it a private nursery? my dds went to a nursery unit attached to a school and they only had 2 teachers to 26 children. if there is a qualified nursery teacher then they only have to have a ratio of 1:13. if there is not, e.g at a playgroup then they have to have a ratio of 1:8.

[stopgap]

Another vote for forest school here. My boy is 22 months and loves being outdoors. Equally, thoughand I gather this is really unusual for his agehe sits completely still for 60 minutes at story hour, and 90 minutes for musical performances. But he's still a boy, and an active one at that, and he has his whole childhood to sit still for teacher-led activities and performances.

I'm lucky to live in a country where kids start school at 5 (thank god, as my DS is a late August child), so I plan on three short sessions of forest school per week when he's 3, and three full mornings at a play-based preschool when he's four. This might alarm those in the UK, but I really feel children should spend the vast majority of the day playing and exploring at such a young age.

[maja00]

Some nurseries are more structured than others.

If this pre-school is quite heavy on the teacher-led stuff and you want him to stay there, then work with them and accept any extra help they want to give.

Otherwise, find a nursery that is more free-play, free-flow in it's philosophy.

Different settings suit different children.

[MovingForward0719]

Hi some behaviours at this age can be a red flag for SEN, doesn't necessarily mean the child has but may need support and monitoring, this is a good thing. I have two kids. The first one had delayed language and traits and ad support and IEP in nursery. By 4 he was fine and everything was withdrawn. I was so cross that I had been out through a stressful time when he was actually fine. My second child had delayed language and I thought here we go again, I genuinely thought it was the same situation. Forward 3 years and he has a statement, full time support and starts special school next year. OP, this probably is not the case for you, but I would bear with it. If he's fine, they won't give support, people often have to fight for it. It is scary and it makes you feel very vulnerable as the parent but they are probably acting in his interests and it's good to be prepared for school.

[pussycatwillum]

OP what you have written is scarily similar to what happened to me. We took DS out of playgroup where he was happy, and they liked him, to put him in a nursery unit attached to a school. The way they spoke about him made me feel they didn't really like him. They put him on an IEP, but the meetings with the SENCo were always fraught because she just wanted to complain about him.They put a lot of emphasis on getting children ready for school. There was never a positive.He did enjoy nursery, but for us each day was stressful waiting for what they would have to say to us at pick up time.
In the end, we took him back to the playgroup, which he went to happily until he started school
I would say go with your gut instinct. Ofsted can be wrong, you know