To be quite worried about my daughter's extreme shyness?

[21stCenturyDropout]

I am getting increasingly worried and frustrated about my 5 year old Dd. She is a lovely child, really creative and funny and doesn't stop chatting when she is around her close family.
However, she started school in September and has found it hard to be part of group activities or anything that involves speaking or being centre of attention. So far we have had to watch her struggle through school activities like the nativity play and sports day. She couldn't even look up during her nativity play. Every parents evening her teacher says she is doing fine. Not the most outgoing child, but quietly confident doing her own thing, which is encouraging. But she can't bring herself to speak to adults who try to engage with her, and takes a very long time to warm up in social situations. Her birthday party was really awful as she couldn't even bring herself to sit at the table with the other children. I felt so embarrassed and ashamed that my child is so lacking in confidence.
My husband and I were both shy as kids, and still find some social situations a strain. I understand that some people are introverts and that it can be a real strength in life to be more sensitive. But I am so worried for her future. I don't want her to go through life missing out and feeling socially crippled.
What can I do to help her? I am so desperate to help her through this.

[Loulybelle]

My DD is also a selective mute, and since shes been diagnosed, shes beginning to show herself more, she even volunteered to do show and tell, and actually coped with the spotlight on her.

Now the school know her issues, they can work with her and give her the support she needs.

You can pursue this with the help of the school.

[Happymum22]

I completely can empathise with you OP and hope you take the useful comments from this thread and ignore the unhelpful ones.
One of my DDs was just as you describe. I can empathise with the feelings of being ashamed and I know you feel this probably in a way that you blame yourself, worry she is unhappy and unfulfilled and perhaps even guilt that she inherited it from you.
You need to try and wipe all these feelings or she will pick up on them and it will make her even less confident. You need to be praising and celebrating her and what she does well. As well as simply accepting her attributes and not constantly fighting it. Know before you go into a situation she may feel anxious, don't say to her 'now, I expect you to go in and play with the other girls with no fuss' - this simply sets up her fears and portrays to her your embarrassment and own anxiety. Say 'there are going to be lots of friendly other girls, lots won't know anyone else either. It sounds like there are lots of fun activities going on to so we can see what they are'

Find lots of different opportunities for her to join in groups or activities. Usually ones where 'doing' is the main element rather than any pressure to talk or socialise. For example, a sport rather than rainbows or drama.
Never ever label her shy or let anyone label her shy. If anyone says how shy she is to her face, say 'oh no she certainly isn't shy, she is wonderful at X'.
The biggest barrier I remember I had as a child is everyone's expectations of me. I was so firmly labelled shy that to break that label was my biggest fear. Sometimes even in anew situation the first thing my mum would say would be 'she is so shy don''t expect her to speak to you'. Everyone knew I was shy, expected me not to put my hand up in class or join in with plays/nativity etc. I was scared of how people would react if I was any different from that.

And as others have said, celebrate her shyness and introversion. Try and build her confidence so she isn't unfulfilled or unhappy and so she can deal with these social situations (Even if it is just so she is quiet but confident in them). But at the end of the day, IMO introverts are so wonderful and often achieve so much more. My DD grew up always very popular, she was a great loyal friend, would happily engage in play, could be really fun but would never be bossy or 'in your face'. She is now 23 and very confident and successful, working in the city and very happy. I saw the following quote a few years ago and it always sticks in my mind when I meet one of those 'in your face' people who just don't let anyone get a word in! It also makes me think of my DD as she really knows who she is and is a very secure person.
'Knowing who you are is confidence. Confidence, not cockiness. Cockiness is knowing who you are and pushing it down everyone's throat.'

[exoticfruits]

I will leave you all too it, having had more than my fair share of time. But this is a very young child, she is either reception or a very young year 1 child. She has had a huge life change and it takes time, especially if she comes from a quiet household where she doesn't have to shout to get attention. I absolutely adored school when I was 5yrs but I had one friend, spoke to the teacher on a one to one and embarrassed my mother by not saying a simple hello to people. It is very common. Some children can go in and immediately be everything that adults see as 'desirable'- it isn't fixed for life and they quite probably won't do any better.
A mother who drew attention to it, singled me out, wanted strategies in school and gave me a label would have been unbearable. She just left me alone, gave me love and security and support.
If there is a very noisy, sociable group now I will avoid them so I expect that you could call me a selective mute- there is nothing wrong in that- I would much rather go for a long walk with someone that I can talk to easily.
I suspect we all select and have people where the conversation flows without effort and those we can't communicate with- even those who have never known a day's shyness.
I suppose that it depends whether you are a cup half full or cup half empty sort of person, Goldmandra has a completely different interpretation of OP to mine.
Only OP knows whether assessment would aid her DD or hinder her. We can't tell- we are all projecting our own experiences onto it- as is OP who wants her DD to be what she wasn't whereas she may be quite like her.

[exoticfruits]

One last word- an excellent post from HappyMum22- I would agree with every word- especially on how to treat the shy child- and the thing that rang the bell loudly was the label- if you are called shy it is doubly difficult to break out- you can't stand the surprise and attention it will give.

[claw2]

Ds is extremely passive, introvert and suffers with severe anxiety. He also has ASD. He doesn't have a diagnosis of SM, however when relaxed and comfortable he can talk for England, when nervous, anxious or uncomfortable he chooses not to speak or engage.

One of the things that CAMHS recommend is gradual exposure to the situations he finds stressful, rather than avoidance.

[Crumbledwalnuts]

I couldn't agree more with everything exotic has said.

[claw2]

"The current edition, DSM-IV-TR (APA, 2000) states that the following criteria must be met in order to qualify for a diagnosis of selective mutism:


An inability to speak in at least one specific social situation where speaking is expected (e.g., at school) despite speaking in other situations (e.g., at home); The disturbance has interfered with educational or occupational achievement or with social communication; The duration of the selective mutism is at least one month and is not limited to the first month of school; The inability to speak is not due to to a lack of knowledge of or discomfort with the primary language required in the social situation; and, The disturbance cannot better be accounted for by a communication disorder (e.g. stuttering) and does not occur exclusively during the course of a pervasive developmental disorder, schizophrenia or other psychotic disorder"

I agree with Exotic, in as much as it is totally up to the parents who know their child best to decided whether they feel their child needs expert support or not.

[dev9aug]

I am sorry Exoticfruits but as well intentioned your points are, the OP is clearly concerned about it to come on here and ask for help. Your posts are based on your own experiences and there is nothing wrong with that as thats what ilikemysleep is doing. So if there is something going on there, then whats the harm in seeking professional advice.

[claw2]

There seems to some confusion between the difference of a 'label' and a diagnosis. Labels are 'shy', 'rude' 'disruptive' etc and can be damaging to a child.

Diagnosis is the act of deciding the nature of a disease, situation, problem, etc. by examination and analysis. It hopefully brings understanding, help and support, improvements and better outcomes.

Without a diagnosis is often when damaging 'labels' come into play. Rather than understanding, help and support a child is labelled 'shy' 'disruptive' etc, etc.

[Crumbledwalnuts]

Yes Claw. And even the DSM is becoming notorious for labelling natural characteristics as illnesses or disorders, requiring treatment or even drugs. This edition (V) they want to label bereavement grief which lasts "too long" - as a psychiatric illness.

[claw2]

That hasn't been my experience of the mental health service, quite the opposite in fact, they often decline referrals, extremely long waiting lists and very reluctant to diagnose. Diagnosis = help and support = spending money. I would say its in their best interest not to diagnosis unless absolutely necessary.

[Crumbledwalnuts]

Yes Claw tb fair I wasn't talking about the NHS but the DSM manual

[Crumbledwalnuts]

As in the people who write it are more likely to be linked with the people who get the money.

[claw2]

Im not so sure about that, as with all NHS services the government is constantly cutting spending/budgets and in a lot of cases services are simply not available to many. All services in my experience are often offered incentives to save money.

I feel uncomfortable with the implication that diagnosis are made up, rather than recognised, it takes me back 50 years to when parents were to blame for ASD for being cold mothers. Or when bad parenting was reasonable for ADHD or when all people suffering from depression just needed a kick up the arse.

[claw2]

I would also point out that you don't NOT have to accept a diagnosis. So if they have now labelled bereavement grief which lasts "too long" - as a psychiatric illness, it must be because it has been debilitating for the people suffering with it.

If someone who is suffering from grief for 'too long' didn't want the diagnosis or thought it was a load of rubbish. They do not have a) seek help in the first place or b) accept a diagnosis.

[claw2]

Oops excuse my grammar, I have a puppy pulling on my shoe laces!

[claw2]

Crumbled seems you have 'labelled bereavement grief which lasts "too long" - as a psychiatric illness' confused with DSM lifting "bereavement exclusion? ? a DSM-IV rule that instructed clinicians not to diagnose major depressive disorder (MDD) after the recent death of a loved one (bereavement) ? even when the patient met the usual MDD criteria.

"Unfortunately, the DSM-5?s decision continues to be misrepresented in the popular media.

Consider, for example, this statement in a recent (5/15/13) Reuters press release:

?Now [with DSM-5], if a father grieves for a murdered child for more than a couple of weeks, he is mentally ill.?

This statement is patently false and misleading. There is nothing in the elimination of the bereavement exclusion that would label bereaved persons ?mentally ill? simply because they are ?grieving? for their lost loved ones. Nor does the DSM-5 place any arbitrary time limit on ordinary grief, in the context of bereavement ? another issue widely misrepresented in the general media, and even by some clinicians.

By removing the bereavement exclusion, the DSM-5 says this: a person who meets the full symptom, severity, duration and impairment criteria for major depressive disorder (MDD) will no longer be denied that diagnosis, solely because the person recently lost a loved one. Importantly, the death may or may not be the main, underlying cause of the person?s depression. There are, for example, many medical causes for depression that may happen to coincide with a recent death"

[Goldmandra]

In my experience and that of many other parents I know whose children have SNs of some sort, professionals are very reluctant to diagnose children with any sort of disorder. The very last thing they want to do is single children out, draw attention to their differences, make a big thing about special treatment or label them.

Quite the opposite is the case in fact. We have just reluctantly accepted been informed that my DD2 needs increased support in school and the biggest concern expressed by the professionals involved in any discussion about her is how to offer her support without making it apparent either to her or to her peers.

All teachers use strategies to support the needs and learning of individual children dozens, if not hundreds of times every single day in the classroom. That is part and parcel of understanding and getting the best from the children they are working with. Suggested strategies for working with a child who is shy have already been identified on this thread and I know these will have been used in classrooms all across the country throughout today.

Teachers can't be expected to be experts in every illness or disability and sometimes they need advice from specialists to help them to fully understand and meet the needs of a particular child, possibly by adjusting their approach slightly or offering helpful group activities. With SM these could be simply slight extensions of what the teacher would already do for a shy child and there's no reason for them to cause negative experiences.

Where a parent has a serious concern about their child's ability to access normal, everyday activities or the impact a difficulty is having on their self esteem, it is perfectly appropriate for them to consider asking for specialist advice. Sometimes the wait for that advice will be long and the problem will resolve itself in the meantime which is great.

I have come across several teaching staff who have a rigid view that identifying a particular need in a child is labeling them in a negative way and that it should be avoided. I find this attitude quite bizarre as I am yet to see an incidence of a child I know being put at a serious disadvantage as a result of having a diagnosis which explains their additional needs. I have, however, seen countless examples of children being severely and repeatedly damaged when labeled as naughty, disobedient, difficult, challenging, manipulative, lazy, willful, attention seeking, selfish, rude, anti-social, spoilt, etc due to the fact that their additional needs have not been assessed and identified.

Clumsy oafs, of course, exist in all walks of life and there's always a chance that someone inept could make the whole thing worse for a child. This person could be, but is unlikely to be, a specialist who has been brought in to help. It could just as easily be a parent, lunchtime supervisor, teacher, TA or GP. It isn't a reason not to look for support if a child needs it and the specialist could be the person who spots someone who thinks throwing the child in the deep end is the way to go and sorts them out .

[Crumbledwalnuts]

"Of the 170 DSM panel members 95 (56%) had one or more financial associations with companies in the pharmaceutical industry. One hundred percent of the members of the panels on 'Mood Disorders' and 'Schizophrenia and Other Psychotic Disorders' had financial ties to drug companies. The leading categories of financial interest held by panel members were research funding (42%), consultancies (22%) and speakers bureau (16%)."

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16636630

[Crumbledwalnuts]

Claw: it is not uncontroversial. You come down on one side of the argument. There is another. www.psychiatrictimes.com/articles/dsm5-and-medicalization-grief-two-perspectives

[Crumbledwalnuts]

ps I wish I had a puppy.

[propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS]

I am sorry to hear your child has SN, Gold . Deep end would not help her, I agree. Fingers crossed though that OP's child is NT and things will resolve in time for her.

[Goldmandra]

ps I wish I had a puppy.

Careful what you wish for! I've just had to manage the mayhem cause by our puppy chewing up a favourite stress ball in the 30 seconds I left the room to go to the toilet!

[Crumbledwalnuts]

Awww how sweet! (from someone many miles away through the internet and not cleaning up the mess!)

[claw2]

Sorry, I wasn't ignoring you, had to take said puppy for a walk!

I suppose it is a case of what came first the chicken or the egg or in this case the condition or investment in pharmaceutical industry.

It is much like the education 'industry' of SN's and provision, where the government have the monopoly on assessment and provision. The same person is responsible for sub contracting assessments of needs, as is providing of provision and purse strings.

Regardless of finance gain, I am sure there are many who have been crippled with severe depression, some maybe even suicidal who have welcomed those drugs/help/support to enable them to function.