To be quite worried about my daughter's extreme shyness?

[21stCenturyDropout]

I am getting increasingly worried and frustrated about my 5 year old Dd. She is a lovely child, really creative and funny and doesn't stop chatting when she is around her close family.
However, she started school in September and has found it hard to be part of group activities or anything that involves speaking or being centre of attention. So far we have had to watch her struggle through school activities like the nativity play and sports day. She couldn't even look up during her nativity play. Every parents evening her teacher says she is doing fine. Not the most outgoing child, but quietly confident doing her own thing, which is encouraging. But she can't bring herself to speak to adults who try to engage with her, and takes a very long time to warm up in social situations. Her birthday party was really awful as she couldn't even bring herself to sit at the table with the other children. I felt so embarrassed and ashamed that my child is so lacking in confidence.
My husband and I were both shy as kids, and still find some social situations a strain. I understand that some people are introverts and that it can be a real strength in life to be more sensitive. But I am so worried for her future. I don't want her to go through life missing out and feeling socially crippled.
What can I do to help her? I am so desperate to help her through this.

[propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS]

Yes, as I said. Kill or cure. Of it fails them accept you have a selective mute on your hands and seek appropriate help.

[mrsjay]

you are ashamed of your little girl shyness that is sad, your child is shy thats all you need to with it and let her be who she is, I have a very shy child yes it can be awkward at times but they manage to make friends and cope at school they are just quiet about it, confidence is something that happens your little girl is introverted this is her personality she will be fine, dd is now a grown up while still introverted she copes fine works goes to college and manages life just in a bit of a quieter way.

[Goldmandra]

Of it fails them accept you have a selective mute on your hands and seek appropriate help.

There are much safer and more appropriate ways to work out if a child should be diagnosed with selective mutism.

Fortunately we've moved on from trial by ordeal.

I'm sure the OP is offering her DD lots of appropriate opportunities to develop her confidence and communication skills.

[LilacPeony]

I think the usual advice would be to gradually acclimatise children to things they are scared of, going at their own pace and at a level they are comfortable with. It isn't to terrify them by throwing them in at the deep end.

[propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS]

Some people prefer to try everything before giving up and accepting a problem. Perhaps that's not you, Gold.....

[propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS]

If op's dd does not enjoy Brownies, swimming, football, trips to parks with others and buying sweets on her own then all best attempts to socialise have not come off. I would then look at going to GP for help. We are all different.

[SoniaGluck]

Some people prefer to try everything before giving up and accepting a problem. Perhaps that's not you, Gold.....

I agree with Gold. I was a very shy child and my mother tried the kill or cure approach that you advocate. It was excruciating and it made me feel worse, I just got tongue tied and felt useless. I am still socially awkward and inept at times.

DD1 was also very shy as a small child - the others were not and would talk to anyone. She would hide upstairs if we had visitors, for example. Having been forced into doing stuff that made me uncomfortable, I didn't force her into things but let her be.

She is now 23, has many friends, enjoys going out socialising, is very confident and ambitious in her career. Of course, she might have developed exactly the same way if I had pushed her to be more outgoing but I'm not convinced of that.

[exoticfruits]

I really don't know why my advice wasn't helpful! I was the shy 5yr old and I know what helped me and it certainly wasn't a mother trying to engineer situations for me or thinking I was missing out or starting to worry about selective mutism. My children were shy. There is nothing wrong with it. They are adults now and socialise, are confident and live quite happily away from home. I - and they- achieved it by a laid back approach and letting them take their own time.
Anything else is excruitiating for the shy child.
As a teacher I have come across literally 100s of shy children and 2selective mutes, some teachers never come across a selective mute- it is rare.
I agree with Sonia. Plants don't thrive if you keep lifting them up to look at the roots! Give her space and time.

[mrsjay]

I agree with exotic trying to find something wrong with a shy or introverted person isn't helpful imo and it just labels them further , my own dd never used to be able to ask for sweets hated handing over money in shops would never ever want to be in front at school play crickey it took her to her last year in high school to play in the school band and she was bricking it

, now she is a grown up she works in a shop she has to speak to customers has friends goes out puts herself into situations that she is maybe not that comfy with, and is quite confident or at least manages, she will be working in creative industries (hopefully if she gets a job) so she is going to have to cope, I dont think forcing children helps but gently encouraging and seeing what they can cope with when they are little does pay off when they are older

[SoniaGluck]

I think you were spot on exotic. My mother's pushing certainly made my shyness a problem for me when I might easily just have grown out of it given patience and time.

Her problem was that she saw having a shy child as her failure and felt that it reflected badly on her child rearing skills.

I tried never to label DD1 as shy and if other people said it I would disagree with them. I believe she was just taking her time to weigh situations up and allowing her to do that with no pressure meant that built up enough confidence to make her own judgements.

She is certainly confident enough these days.

[Loa]

My DC are shy - though I prefer to call it slow to warm up and tell people that and that it is fine for them to be that way. I was less strict about that with second DC and he started referring to himself as shy - which really didn't help.

I spent years at toddler groups with them not venturing far - and that was o.k as I played with them nearby and they saw me interact with others and they all eventually after months went of independently.

Eldest has done better at school - class of 30 - than at her small nursery which always made a big deal of her not wanting to be center of attention.

She is now 7 and has been performing on stage in an outside school activity this week at her request - she hated and looked very unhappy in her reception nativity play.

It taken my DS a lot longer to be more relaxed - end of year 1 he is shy but its not anywhere near as bad and only in new situations when he is by himself with no one he knows - which is extremely rare - and he is not an introvert.

I do think you are confusing - low self -confidence, being introverted and lacking confidence.

Perhaps smaller birthday parties, or days out instead, or more low key one where is is only center of attention for candle blowing - I found soft play parties are like that - DC off playing then sit down to food but attention only on birthday DC for cake blowing really.

You probably also need to work on worrying about what others think of you and your DC behavior. At 5 I sure she really isn't missing out on much - and with time and patience she'll be able to manage her reticence in social situation better.

[Loa]

I do think you are confusing - low self -confidence, being introverted and shyness

.

I did prof read as well.

[HandMini]

My DD is shy. And it is awkward at parties and groups when she runs away from other children and buries her head in my legs.

I don't think you're being awful to admit to feeling embarrassed or ashamed by it. I sometimes do. I feel embarrassed because it sometimes comes across as rude (turning her back on a mum offering birthday cake) and I feel ashamed (of myself not her) because I think other mums must think her shyness stems from me mollycoddling her or I'm really precious. I don't think I am. Maybe that's all just my anxiety.

Anyway, what I try to do is:

• not make a big deal of it
  
• stay in one place at groups and parties in the hope that she'll go off and play alone a bit but she always knows where I am
  
• I tell her "it's ok to feel shy, but you have to be polite" and as other posters have done, give her clear instructions like "take the plate, say thank you and sit here next to X"
  

CHJR - what a lovely post and a great viewpoint.

[schoolchauffeur]

I have a very introverted DD ( now nearly 18). Reading this book really helped me understand where she is coming from:
www.amazon.co.uk/Quiet-power-introverts-world-talking/dp/0670916765?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21
That said, she is now on her own on a month volunteer project several thousand miles away, living with and dealing with strangers every day. It hasn't held her back from anything.
Her school reports were always excellent academically but always marred by comments like "She needs to ask more questions/speak more". She used to say "why- I don't need to ask a question?".
The book above shows how we have come to the situation where being sociable/chatty etc is so valued and how this is flawed.
Its also a very readable book.

[ilikemysleep]

Look, I am sure you don't mean it that way, but I find your posts, exotic and mrsjay, really offensive. The implication is that I and other parents who have sought help for our SM children have uselessly labelled them or branded them disabled. No-one here has said to the OP that her child is definitely selectively mute, it has merely been suggested as a possibility which the OP might consider. The OP has herself come back and said that she has indeed considered it and thinks her DD is too young to make a judgement. That is a perfectly sensible response. She is aware of the possibility and will consider it. Why keep coming back to it and justifying why the OP should rule that possibility out, and in fact that people shouldn't seek further assessment for their children if they are worried, on the basis that you or your children struggled as children and are fine now? FYI there are plenty of adults on the SM boards who have never managed to overcome their mutism and whose lives are blighted. There are also those who have managed to overcome it with or without help, but many talk about years of feeling misunderstood.

My son was in an incident at playtime when he was 10, in year 5, pre-diagnosis. The teacher questioned him. The TA came in to 'help' because he couldn't talk to the teacher. Then they called in his best friend to talk to him, he was still so anxious that he could not speak. After 45 minutes of questioning during which time he sobbed constantly but could not explain what had happened (he had bitten a younger child, so a serious incident, and they needed to have his side of the story) someone gave him a pencil and paper. Do you know what he eventually wrote through his tears? 'No-one understands me'. That scenario would not happen now, because finally people DO understand him. I know that SM is not the same as shyness, I don't know what OP is dealing with but as her dd is only 5 and lots of 5 year olds are shy - but OP is 'worried' - that suggests more to me than needing 20 mins to warm up socially in a new situation. You're right, there's nothing wrong with being shy, and there's lots of good advice on the thread, some of which is to be aware that it might turn out to be more than 'just shyness'. And if it doesn't, that is great. But don't tell me that an 11 year old who is able to answer direct questions about work but can't say hello to someone, or order in a cafe, or visit their new secondary school without clinging on to their mum like a 3 year old, shaking and unable to speak at all, is 'just shy' and I should have left him to it. Because that suggestion upsets me.

[exoticfruits]

I agree with MrsJay and Sonia- it is a subject that I feel strongly about and am a bit upset to be told that my advice was unhelpful because it obviously rubs a nerve with OP.
The worst thing ever for me were adults engineering situations to 'help'me. The best were adults who took time to draw me out without making it obvious that was what they were doing or expecting anything from it. It was also very difficult to live with the label 'shy'.
My school reports all had things like 'exotic would get more from her lessons if she took a more active part' - as if I was to think 'yay why ever didn't I think of that' and start doing it! When my DSs were in secondary school I spent my time explaining on parent's evenings that it wasn't easy and when they gained the confidence they would speak more. I was thrilled when I got a Geography teacher who understood- she had been that child.
I managed to go away from home, I became a teacher- someone who is always talking! My children went away from home and are perfectly well balanced, sociable adults. None of us are comfortable on a stage though- we avoid stages although it hasn't always been possible in my case.
Time- space- a laid back approach- treat it as normal.

[exoticfruits]

Sorry- ilikemysleep-but you are reading your experience into OP who merely has a shy child. Selective mutes don't even reply to the school register.

[exoticfruits]

If I thought it was more than shyness I would give different advice.

[Arabesque]

Just leave her alone. Her teachers obviously don't think there's a problem. Agitating and getting upset over it is just going to make her go in on herself even more. Lots of 5 year olds are shy and grow out of it. The worst thing you could possibly do is make an issue out of it. You'll only make her feel like she's strange or odd and then she'll become even more self concious.

[ilikemysleep]

Yes, but Exotic fruits, unless you know the OP, how do you know that her DD is just shy? I was told that for years, I believed that for years. I was a shy child. My son was a very very shy child whose behaviour we could excuse as shyness for years until it became clear that he actually has severe social anxiety. I cannot see how you can be so positive from a brief description in the original post. Unless you are wrongly thinking that selectively mute children never speak at all to anyone in school. Selectively mute children DO answer the register, soemtimes, it depends on the scope of the mutism. My son answers the register, and speaks to his friends, and answers the teacher if she asks what is 5 times 6 or some other question where he knows the answer. Because it is SELECTIVE mutism. That means it happens some ofthe time. the aspect of communication that makes him anxious is giving open answers, being asked something by a teacher that is not related to the work, or speaking to adults in authority. It's like being scared of spiders. You are only scared if you see a spider. You wouldn't necessarily be scared of a ladybird. My son is selectively mute, in specific communication situations, because it is those aspects of communication that make him anxious. I can see now why you were so positive as your understanding of selective mutism is wrong.

The fact is, neither of us knows, and another post has made a generalisation about people trying to find 'something wrong' with shy children. Sometimes, there IS something wrong.

[shewhowines]

Thanks ilike for clarifying that it is not all the time. I really think that is a common misconception.

I taught a SM once. She had just come up from the infants (where she really did speak to no one) to my class in a different junior school(age 8). It was probably that it was a new school and a new situation but she really improved over the year. The parents cried at one point, in their gratitude after she said a few words in assembly. I really don't think it was anything I did. I just treated her normally and didn't put pressure on to her. Sometimes I whispered in her ear, asking her if she wanted to contribute but other than that I did nothing extra. The point I am trying to make, is to give you hope that these things may not be permanent and sometimes things change for the better for no apparent reason. By the time she left juniors, nobody would ever have realised there was ever a problem.

[Goldmandra]

Some people prefer to try everything before giving up and accepting a problem. Perhaps that's not you, Gold.....

No. I prefer to label them with every disorder going, wrap them in cotton wool and make sure they never have an opportunity to spread their wings and achieve their full potential

There is a significant and crucially important difference between trying different supportive strategies to enable a child to succeed and setting them up to fail spectacularly and publicly in order to prove that they have a real difficulty.

[kerala]

My sister was like this parents were very concerned. Now has top job in the arts manages team of 30 and hosts fundraising events for royalty politicians and the super rich who she schmoozes. It was a phase but she was chronically shy until she started secondary at 11 and "didn't want to be like that anymore"

[hexagonal]

I'm quite surprised at the amount of people just in this thread that have had SM or had children with it. When I had it I would have loved to know that there was a name for it and there were other people with it. I genuinely believed I was the only one in the world.