To be quite worried about my daughter's extreme shyness?

[21stCenturyDropout]

I am getting increasingly worried and frustrated about my 5 year old Dd. She is a lovely child, really creative and funny and doesn't stop chatting when she is around her close family.
However, she started school in September and has found it hard to be part of group activities or anything that involves speaking or being centre of attention. So far we have had to watch her struggle through school activities like the nativity play and sports day. She couldn't even look up during her nativity play. Every parents evening her teacher says she is doing fine. Not the most outgoing child, but quietly confident doing her own thing, which is encouraging. But she can't bring herself to speak to adults who try to engage with her, and takes a very long time to warm up in social situations. Her birthday party was really awful as she couldn't even bring herself to sit at the table with the other children. I felt so embarrassed and ashamed that my child is so lacking in confidence.
My husband and I were both shy as kids, and still find some social situations a strain. I understand that some people are introverts and that it can be a real strength in life to be more sensitive. But I am so worried for her future. I don't want her to go through life missing out and feeling socially crippled.
What can I do to help her? I am so desperate to help her through this.

[FreudiansSlipper]

ds was like this and still is a little shy at times

it was very difficult to watch as he would struggle in groups of children and with adults too. he attended some dance/drama classes and that really really helped the staff were great. i do not think he is heading for the stage but a few months of going and he really came out of himself

[mrsjay]

just want to say I apologise I did not mean the posters children with selective mutism all i meant was you cant say every shy child is SM it is a very rare condition

[exoticfruits]

I don't want to keep banging on but the teacher has said that she is doing fine, and you don't say that if there is the merest hint of selective mutism.
I would bet that SM children don't answer the register to a supply teacher- regardless of whether they manage with the normal routine. If it is more than a shy child then other children will explain her to strangers like supply teachers. They do not explain shy children.(based on supply teaching 100s of children)
I have had many parents very grateful for my treatment of shy children- I am able to be helpful because I was the shy child.
While I can see that it must be a relief to have a diagnosis if you have more than shyness, I can't think of anything worse than my mother wanting to get me tested or discussed in any way or feeling that she needed to send me to activies or wanted to see me being confident centre stage.
Just be normal, be outgoing yourself, don't force her into things but at the same time don't collude in avoiding things. Above all avoid the label 'shy'.
I also think that you have to be realistic, and if you found it difficult to be centre of attention on a stage at 5yrs or found it difficult to converse with strangers then it is quite likely your child will find it difficult at 5yrs - and there is no need to be embarrassed or ashamed. It doesn't automatically follow- shy people can produce confident extroverts who love centre stage. Just support the child you have - rather than the one you want.

[ilikemysleep]

Ironically, the advice you are giving, ie to remove pressure and reduce anxiety, is exactly the same as sm advice. The only add on is a bit of therapeutic work around desensitisation or 'sliding in'. SM advice would never be to put a big spotlight on the child or force them to do things that make them uncomfortable. You advice is spot on, but I am still blown away by how authoritatively you talk about SM and how teachers would never overlook it when clearly you had a misunderstanding yourself about what might constitute SM. And when many, many kids where the SM is not fully pervasive (ie they are not completely silent all the time in school) do not have that experience. Children being overlooked and misinterpreted is not only something that happens in sm, it is the norm, and it saddens me that you resolutely refuse to accept that when several posters have said that they themselves as children in retrospect had sm and it was never recognised, and when my son was 'fine' according to teachers for 4 years. Maybe you are a remarkable teacher who has never assumed a child is rude or defiant when they don't talk in cettain circumstances, because of your own childhood experiences. But having that judgement made of them is the norm for most sm kids.

[Crumbledwalnuts]

Hello, hope you don't mind but I have only read the OP. I do have a little advice and I would say that you stop worrying completely, if she wants to huddle to you and cuddle in allow it, just try to encourage the minimum of politeness (just say hello/thank you then you can sit on my knee all night if you like etc etc) Don't force anything. It might take two weeks or three months or six months but it doesn't matter, in the end she will start to explore things a little. Never be embarrassed by her wanting to cling to you rather than mingle. Never feel ashamed in front of other mothers. Don't care about what they think, the only important thing is helping your child feel secure. Make her feel totally secure with you, no forced playdates, no forced sports events, if she doesn't want to be in the school play just allow it. I know it sounds indulgent but I cannot recommend it strongly enough. Of course not having read the thread this would be my advice for a very shy child and if you have been talking about different extra problems I have no experience of those.

[Crumbledwalnuts]

Also, I'm sorry if people already said this.

[Owzat]

My daughter is very much like yours, OP, but a bit younger (3).

She starts nursery in September, and I'm worried for her as I know she will be wellout of her comfort zonee. She starting with 10 hours (2 mornings) a week, and we'll take it from there. She is my eldest child, and I've always noted how introverted she is when compared with her peers. I've taken her to various classes and toddler groups, visited people etc, and she goes to a childminder 1 day a week. I always gently encourage her to interact but she's really not keen. Like others, Apsergers has crossed my mind as she is intelligent, bookish, and logical - along with the 'shyness'. Whatever she is, she has some great qualities, and I'm sure she'll grow to a place where she's able to get along just fine. I'm proud of her - she's calm and sensitive, can focus on things, has a fantastic memory, and enjoys friendships with a couple of people she sees regularly. She doesn't get into conflicts and doesn't tantrum.

BUT, it's taken me a while to truely accept her as she is. I was embarassed by the extreme shyness and forever making excuses. I've had a lot of people giving me 'advice' and disapproval. To be fair, I've only recently fully accepted my own introvert tendencies. Not everyone needs to be in the limelight, and nor should they. Whilst I realise school is likely to be an uncomfortable world for my DD, I now feel able to support her through it, and I believe 'gently, gently' is the way to go.

[Crumbledwalnuts]

Yes that's it owzat, accepting as she is!

[Owzat]

crumbled That's exactly the approach I'm taking now. I've already seen small improvements, compared with me mithering her constantly to talk!

[briany]

Mine's a bit like this too, now 7. It has got better over the years. I totally understand you being embarrassed, because people who don't understand think they're being rude or standoffish. The number of times people have reacted as though their dc is being snubbed. When the reality is mine is like this with everyone. It takes her ages to warm up in social situations. She often doesn't respond to people she knows well who say hello in the street. Every morning the TA says good morning as she walks in, but she never replies. It's mortifying.

She's now of an age where I can try to explain to her - how do you think they felt that they came up and said hello and you didn't reply? And that actually it's far easier to just very quickly say hello rather than hide.

Going forward - mine is fine with one or two close friends. She can't really cope with more than that. So we have small parties that she can cope with, usually about people. If she's trying something new, I try to get a friend to go with her. She quite enjoys trying new things if it's a small group - so I try to find things like that.

As for school plays and reading out loud - mine still doesn't do that. But I just think there's no rush. I was the same at her age and I was forced to take main parts in plays which caused me huge amounts of stress. I'm glad they don't seem to be doing that to her.

I am now an adult and have done presentations and things for uni and work. I still have social problems - I don't do well in groups. But mostly I'm fine. She's just inherited some social anxiety I think. I think my aim is to try and manage it.

i don't know what the answer is. just to accept her as she is and try and increase her confidence slowly. it's funny but as time goes on they all shine in different ways. whereas some of her friends are the all singing and dancing types good at so many things and so confident, she has had prizes for artwork, maths, being kind. have faith in her abilities in other ways.

[21stCenturyDropout]

Hand mini, that's exactly how I feel. I am always completely honest on here because what is the point in hiding how you feel. Just reading some of the comments (and disagreements) on here highlights what an emotive subject it is.
I think everyone feels negative emotions concerning their children at some point and I would question anyone who says otherwise. I take great care to show empathy towards my child. After all, I have been there and I do understand. But it is still frustrating.
Exoticfruits please don't think your comments were not helpful, I have read through again and I do agree with you that it is not helpful to push a shy child into things when they are not ready. And no, you wouldn't catch me on stage if my life depended on it! I think my wording in my OP was a little off. I feel ashamed and embarrassed on my own behalf as I worry that it is my fault that she is having problems.
I am sure everyone is right, and she will thrive despite her shyness. But I will definitely be getting her assessed if I feel she might have SM.

[exoticfruits]

It isn't your fault she is having problems- are you even sure that she finds it a problem? I can't say that I did particularly - it was quite possible to stay in the background- it is more of a problem because other people see it as a problem if you can follow that rather convoluted thinking! Personally I was very happy curled up with a book or with a few friends or just people watching and had no desire to be madly social or in the limelight. Even now I need time on my own in absolute silence, and while I go to parties and interact without problems I can't say that I enjoy them unless I really know the people well.
I understand that you feel it held you back and you want her to do the things that you missed out on , which is where I think we got the misunderstanding of 'ashamed' and 'embarrassed'.
I think you have to stop projecting- she is not you. Owzat has the answer, accept her for what she is - celebrate what she can do and her good qualities- and don't dwell on what she can't do. She may well do them next month, next year or in 10 yrs time, As said gently, gently and you don't have to make excuses or blame yourself. (Mothers are very good at guilt!)

[EugenesAxe]

I used to love the book 'Leo The Late Bloomer' - and while she is blooming in many ways, I'd venture to say she's just taking her time on this one. Leo's mum says 'A watched bloomer doesn't bloom.'

My DN has been a bit like this but has really taken a step forward in terms of confidence in the year of age 7-8.

Is it I think the baby whisperer books that say love the child you have and not the child you want? I think everyone's right... relax and things will probably improve on their own.

[exoticfruits]

Since your posts I have been reading up on SM, iliketosleep, and all sites say it is rare. They also advocate the very things I am saying e.g. Remove pressure.
I still can't see anything in OP to indicate it and in OP's case I wouldn't investigate it as yet because it is doing the very thing that I would have hated as a child- drawing attention to me and calling me a problem when I was merely shy. Most of the population are shy- very few people could stand up and make a speech in front of a few hundred people without qualms- even those who do it for a living get stage fright! Some people are better at hiding it than others.

[Georgetta]

Completely agree here with Ilikemysleep.While it may be simple shyness it also might not be.What you describe OP is exactly like my own dd.I wont trawl through her entire history but she remained like this to present day-she is now 16 and was diagnosed last year with Aspergers and social anxiety.I really wish I had flagged her issues much earlier. However,I simply always assumed she was just extremely shy and would grow out of it .

[exoticfruits]

I would suggest that OP reads up on these things before she goes down the route of investigating them. SM is very rare, DCs on AS spectrum are more common- but simple shyness is very common. Lots of children are shy - if you start a thread on here asking posters if they are shy it will be full in no time- and then you have to bear in mind that many shy people won't admit to it.
Most parents would like a socially confident child who can charm adults, be invited to all parties, can take the lead in school plays etc. In reality very few get it. You can get the opposite problem where the DC is overconfident, has no social boundaries, is overbearing and bossy.
Life is a journey- you don't arrive at 5yrs being mature and and confident- it takes a life time for some and some never get there! You can still enjoy the journey.
A lot of people never get over being shy, they just learn to deal with it or hide it. Generally they just gain in confidence and find that they can do easily things that they used to find difficult.

[ilikemysleep]

Exoticfruits. Like many sens, selective mutism is a spectrum disorder. Do you remember when autism was extremely rare? Websites then said that it was 1 in 1000. Now we are at 1in 88 on tha autism spectrum, because a wider range of manifestations is recognised. All of whose lives are impacted in some way by their autism. I suspect that SM is similar and in its fullest range of manifestations nowhere near as rare as you think. Look at how many people on this thread have recognised it in their or their children's pasts. Thank you for doing some research though. Do you read any of my posts? I have said that your advice is the same as what would be advised for SM. I have also respected the op's pov that she thinks she will wait and see as she thinks her dd might be a bit young. At no point have I pushed herto get her dd assessed, only to be aware that, it might be, something to consider at some point despite you saying early on and with authority that this was definitely NOT SM when actually you do not have the expertise to rule that out, then repeating with confidence that you knew the child was 'merely shy' on the grounds that SM children don't answer the register. When actually, some do. All through the thread you have told other posters they are projecting their own experiences, yet you seem unable to recognise that you are projecting your own, advising op not to seek further assessment because YOU would have hated it. All I am trying to do is counterbalance your strong message that this child is merely shy and will be fine (which might well be the case) with my own, which is that sometimes children are nit merely shy so bear that in mind and see how your daughter gies on, op, don't take exotic fruits overconfident assertion that she knows your daughter does not have selective mutism as gospel truth.

[exoticfruits]

I haven't said that she doesn't have it! I have read up on it and every single website about it said that it was rare.
On a very simple level other children never explain shy children to a supply teacher - even if they are very shy- they always explain an abnormally shy child. There is nothing in OP to suggest that other children would feel the need to explain her DC.
My answer is to be laid back and relaxed and treat it as normal. Immediately you start investigating reasons you are giving the message that it is a problem and you are anxious.
All I am saying is don't do this unless you have a real worry that there is an underlying cause. Children pick up on what you don't say - they are very astute.

[biryani]

I don't understand why it's so important to be outgoing. I was desperately shy as a child and hated being made to mingle. I still find socialising difficult even now.

There's a really good book around at the moment called Quiet which celebrates quiet, introverted types. Really good read.

[exoticfruits]

Neither do I biryani- which is why I keep banging on. I don't see it as a disability - and I hate this idea that you have to assume there is something wrong. Adults just have to work a little harder getting to know the child. I was fed up with the doctor at my DSs 3yr check- he had just been utterly charmed by a very chatty, friendly girl. He would have found my DS equally charming given time and patience. Telling how lovely the last child was didn't help! He didn't get a word out of my DS.
I can't see why being the extrovert is so superior.

[exoticfruits]

I would say that my brother is on the mild end of the AS spectrum - had it being know about when he was 5yrs. I can't see how the knowledge helps , then or now, he has an active life and is married with 3children. If it was severe then it would have helped to be diagnosed.

[2rebecca]

I don't think it's important to be outgoing, but I do think being confident helps all aspects of life. Confidence isn't linked to extroversion, there are some insecure people who never shut up. You can be quietly confident.
A child that won't look at people or say hello lacks confidence. Teaching your child they are as good as other people and that other people aren't scary and building their confidence can only help them.
I agree that often their self confidence just grows with time and there is no need to push them into stressful situations all the time. I wouldn't let them hide from social situations either though, although i do think performing on a stage should be as optional for young children as it is for adults.

[exoticfruits]

Building confidence is a long slow progress- it is not a short term thing. Treating it as a problem isn't going to help.
Normality is what you want- don't push them into stressful situations but don't let them hide from them either.

[exoticfruits]

And if they do have success just treat it as normal- making a big thing of it pushed me right back in my shell! Avoid discussing them when they can hear.