Am I unreasonable to be livid about this?

[Eliza22]

I'm divorced. Ds (ASD/OCD) goes to dad twice a month or, every other weekend. This weekend, he was allowed to sleep in a tent in the garden, by himself, whilst ex husband and partner slept in the house.

I'm so annoyed. Ds is high functioning, more Aspie but, with OCD, has massive anxiety issues. However, SD wanted to do it.

Was that a safe thing to do? He is described in his Statement as being " extremely vulnerable with very poor danger perception".

I think you are certainly not being unreasonable. I would be thanking my lucky stars that nothing happened and also would be hopping mad with the fool that thought it was an acceptable risk to take.

My children both have autism. To leave them unattended is to take a HUGE gamble. When you are dealing with a child who has no sense of danger and who is incapable of making decisions that will keep them safe then you HAVE to protect them.

Luckily, your son was fine. But that was just luck. He could have become afraid, he could have wandered off, he could have injured himself...

The point is not that he is 12, it is not that through sheer chance no harm came to him on this occasion, it is that he has a disability that means that he is extremely vulnerable and the adults who are responsible for caring for him have to act responsibly.

The examples you have given show a man who is incapable of understanding what his son needs. I really think he shouldn't be allowed unsupervised (or at least no overnight) access until or unless he can be made to understand how vulnerable your son is.

This man wants to treat the boy like a neurotypical child and that's not going to work, because he isn't one !

Eliza You story about the 'other' camping trip is heartbreaking!? Who the fuck fixes a zip so their scared child can't come in and feel safe?

That occasion alone would have had me saying no to over nighters, is this what you are going to do?

He's 12 and I suspect he needs, despite his SN to start feeling like he's growing up. He needs to start taking small risks and pushing his comfort zone, that's what growing up means.

My DDs have camped in the gardern from 9 or 10 and DD1 has stayed out on her own when little sister decided to come in.

Startail - do both your daughters have autism or just one? How did you know when it was just pushing a comfort zone as opposed to an actual inability to keep themselves safe due to their disability? How sure were you that they would be able to keep themselves safe?

It's terrifying to take that change with your child with autism, isn't it though? Because you have no way of knowing whether they are going to cope. Did you just sleep and trust that everything would be ok or did you covertly supervise them in case it all went horribly wrong?

chance not change.

Yanbu

Time to stop the overnighters??

I tried to do that but all hell broke lose and this is the first time the issue has arisen again. I keep trying to get the point across to ex and his partner who, because she used to be a nanny, feels she knows much about children. She probably knows more about NT kids, but I know my ds, inside out.

The flip side is that my (now) DH, though an excellent step dad to ds, needs a break from time to time. When I suggested stopping overnight co tact or at least reviewing massively, DH was not p,eased. I'm in the middle. All I can do is express my concerns/displeasure and hope that in the 48 hr period ex has ds, twice monthly, no actual harm comes to him.

Ex has pressured ds (who will try - as he wants desperately to fit in) to walk alone to the shop and cross a road. I said this was to stop. As far as I know, it has. Last year, ds asked me if he might walk to school. I devised a plan with school SENCO that he could set off, 30 paces ahead of me for the 5 min walk. They would greet him outside school and I'd then wave to him when he was safely going into the building. We did it a few times but sadly, other kids were taking the piss out of him as he walked along and he stopped doing it. As I say, he does stick out like a sore thumb and this is part if his vulnerability.

Eh ?

You are sending your son overnight to a place where he is not receiving optimal and appropriate care to appease his stepfather?

I just lost sympathy for you

oh god, that's terrifying! If my kids were made to cross a road by themselves on regular basis it would only be a matter of time before they were killed! You must be really worried each and every time your son is with his dad!

Sorry, but your son's safety comes before your current husband's right to a night off! It really does.

I hope the school are on top of the teasing. It's really shit, isn't it? Kids who would tease a blind child, or one in a wheelchair for their disability are few and far between and would be in a lot of trouble from teachers, parents and other students!, yet autism awareness is so shit that our kids often get laughed and sneered at.

oh, and there's no place for you in the middle when it comes to your son's safety. I am not trying to be horrible, I really am not. But there is no compromise or middle ground on safety.

I can see Startail's point about him needing more independence, but given his SN surely it would have to be baby steps, training him and preparing him all the way?

Not suddenly flinging him out in an unprepared situation where he might have to make decisions on his own.

This sounds scary to me.

A 12yo who is not safe to walk a short distance to the shops is by definition not safe to sleep all night outside on his own.

I was a single mum, just me and ds, for over 5 years. I struggled massively. When I saw a solicitor about ex and ds I was told to try again in educating him (this was when I got back-up from medical team/psychiatrist) and ex was basically told he must comply. As I say, there have been no major issues since. I guess I'm just very worn down by the whole thing. Personally, I'd like to finish with this worrying but I can't leave ds and there's no one else to look after him.

My current situation means that if I'm not with DH, I have no where to go.

Oh yes. You're totally right. It has to be a well planned out process agreed by everyone and the starting point always the current ability of the child and plans in place for if it doesn't work.

Responsible risk taking is important - but this isn't it. This is totally irresponsible.

Oh, and it's ok, I don't want your sympathy. I have a constant battle on my hands between ds and his condition, ex and his attitude and DH and his swinging from love and support to barely concealed intolerance.

The solicitor wanted to know of any incident of actual harm. There were none. As has been said, that's more good luck than responsible management. I emailed ex last night to warn him that I will cease overnight contact and have this morning had a "conversation" of shouting abuse down the phone.

It is an endless situation.

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. I would be furious. And probably not wanting him to go there again.

A bit different but my 9yo was invited to a party and it was only when we arrived that we discovered the 3 girls were to sleep in a tent on the frint lawn while the parents slept inside the locked house. No way was I going to let my daughter stay.

Tbh I don?t think this is quite as black and white as yanbu/yabu, although I can see why it could be seen that way.

Firstly, obviously if your ds? disabilities are such that he has no sense of danger at all and has severe anxieties then any desire to do things more independently need to be assessed probably on a case by case basis. Having said that, he is twelve, and unless his disabilities are such that he will never lead an independent life and can never be left unsupervised then there is going to come a point when he is going to want the freedom to do some more ?normal? things iyswim, and there does have to come a point where this is facilitated. Unfortunately that sometimes means getting it wrong before you get it right iyswim, and I?m not sure camping in the back garden would have been my starting point on that one either, but assuming he will one day lead an (as much as possible) independent life, at some point there does need to be some facilitation of gaining some independence in the same way any of his peers would iyswim. Now I?m assuming from your descriptions that although your ds has ASD, he doesn?t actually have learning difficulties per se, so at twelve he will certainly realise that his peers have independence that he has not yet been allowed, and therefore will seek this ? iyswim?

I think the posters who are saying that it is pure luck that nothing dreadful happened are sending out a truly horrible message ? that it should almost be expected that something terrible would happen and that it?s only by chance that it didn?t. Actually it?s not by chance at all. The child camped in the garden, he did so safely (in spite of fears that he has no understanding of safety) and nothing happened. That?s not chance ? that is credit to the child that he was responsible enough on this occasion to camp out in the garden alone and this IMO needs to be acknowledged. We need to stop living in a society that views disability as a worst case scenario rather than accepting that many people with disabilities do gain independence skills, and that although this may take longer in some cases than others,, we need to look at assessing risks rather than living in a fear-consumed culture that disallows independence on the basis that bad things happen through luck rather than anything else.

The reality is that ?bad? things are a rare occurrence. Sighting cases such as Madeleine McCann and the little girl taken from her garden are not comparative at all, but even if they were, the fact you are able to quote names of only a handful of cases which have happened over the time frame of several years speaks volumes as to just how rare these instances are.

Now, I can see why the incident in Spain may have made you more anxious, however, if you look at it from a different angle, your ds locked himself out, he didn?t wander off, he didn?t go anywhere else, he merely knocked on the door to be let back in, and although he became anxious and had to be taken to calm down, the fact is he didn?t behave irresponsibly on that occasion either or put himself in danger.

I can absolutely understand why you are anxious about this, however there?s a fine line between letting go and holding on, and so often it is difficult to know where that line is drawn, and sometimes we as parents get it wrong ? on both sides ? it is possible to over protect a disabled child just as much as it is possible to not consider their disability when risk assessing.

Lastly, I think there is a real possibility that you are projecting your own issues about this on to your ds. You say he said he only did it to make his dad proud, I wonder whether that?s actually the case or whether that?s what he thinks you want to hear. You have said to him that you?re cross with his dad ? IMO it is never acceptable to involve the child in the feelings between the parents ? he doesn?t need to know if you?re cross with his father, that is between the two of you and should remain such. You need to stop your feelings towards your ex on to your ds, because that isn?t going to be helpful either.

I can see both sides, as he wanted to do it your ex might have felt that it was mean to say no?

I loved sleeping in a tent in the garden at that age, if I needed anything went into the house. Would your DS have been confident enough to go back inside the house to his Dad if he got anxious? Was he on his own?
Did he enjoy the experience?

I do think WannaBe makes good points. It is going to be a constant balance between preparing him for indepent life if at all possible and not putting him at a risk that is out of proportion with a normal level of risk-taking at this age.

(For those posters claiming that no risk taking is acceptable, how do you deal with your NT 12yos; how can they develop normally if they are never allowed to take any risks at all? surely all near-teens, however NT, do sometimes take risks that could potentially result in death?)

If there is reason to believe he will not be able to live independently, then presumably plans will have to be made for that, and the ex will have to be involved in those discussions.

If not, then you need some kind of plan of how you are gradually going to prepared him for greater and greater independence. (and no, I don't think the tent was a great idea)

I am in a slightly different position, as dd does not have ASD, but does have a physical disability which can result in sudden collapse and also severe anxiety which has resulted in impulsive suicide attempts. It still needs a similar kind of balance and forward thinking: how can I prepare her for this, what level of risk taking is acceptable, is it better to accept a lowish level of risk now rather than risking her being at great risk later on because she is not prepared, how do I balance the growth of her self esteem against the risk that she may find herself out of her depth etc etc. No easy answers.

wannaBe thanks, a thoughtful post, that. Considering the issues with my ex, I've done pretty well to conceal my anger and absolute fury, at some of the positions he has allowed ds to be in.

I do remember the horror of the little girl snatched from her garden tent. It was only 2 miles down the road from DS's grandparents, at the time. It was shocking and scary, for everyone. As a teenager, we had a neighbour who everyone thought a little odd. We didn't realise how odd until he was arrested for having child pornography and paedaphilia connections. I am perhaps a little sensitive, due to experience myself as a teen by a person held to be a guardian for me. It seems his antics had been going on, for years.

As I say, if I had a neurotypical child of 12, I'd not allow him/her to sleep alone in a house, a tent, a shed, a boat.... Whatever. The world we live in now can be unsafe. Very unsafe. I am not projecting my fears onto ds. He has stranger danger sessions at school and wants to know the ins and outs of everything. He is intelligent enough to know his peers go into town alone.... We are trying to develop a friendship with a local kid in the hope they can go into town together and have just bought him a mobile phone to help with this. The first day he took it to school, as all kids are allowed for break time etc, he was coerced into giving it to class mates to look at and he said he was "told" he could have it back "later" as other kids wanted to play on it.

As I say, not in any way forceful, always wanting to fit in and please. Vulnerable.

Iirc the number of child abductions/child murders by strangers has not gone up over the last 50 years or so; the only reason for the rise in the figures is that parental abduction now counts in the statistics. SO the world is probably no more unsafe than it ever was.

It is not a safe world. But the problem with that is that it won't be any safer by the time your ds sets out to live independently, whatever age that will be. Young adults often come to harm too. And you won't care any less then.

So the best thing you can do is to ignore your own past, and sit down to plan for your ds' future: how can you help him, with the limitations imposed by his SN, to be as safe as possible when he gradually becomes more independent.

Cory, I agree. But I feel in this instance, my ex was wrong. I have to look to a time of full/partial independence, for his needs and my own. I'm not sure about the statistics and I don't have enough evidence to quote emphatically but (and this could be media reporting) there seems to be such violence in child crime now. As a nation, we were all utterly shocked because the perpetrators were 12 year old boys themselves. The Edlington (Doncaster) torture of two boys was again, by two local brothers (aged 11 and 12) who knew their victims.

I really don't think I've over reacted. And yes, bad things happen to adults but there's a way of developing some safe independence and this, wasnt it.

When I walk into town with ds (rare, cause of his OCD) he knows people are looking at him. He tries to "act normal" and this seems to make him stand out even further! You'd be surprised at the open snickering and gawping and mimicking that goes on. Anyone "different" is vulnerable/a target.

Sorry.... A line is missing "in the case of James Bulger, we were all utterly shocked..."