To get annoyed when other women say "I'm not a feminist"

[Nickabilla]

As if it's a dirty word and a shameful thing to be? I hear it every now and then and always question it. Someone said it today and I'm annoyed again.

Do some women not realise that women didn't used to be allowed to go to university, get divorced, own property or vote?

Rant over.

[Souredstones]

Skyler

It is tipping beyond equality though, especially maternity leave, it's running small businesses into the ground.

We can't have it all sadly

[skylerwhite]

technotropic Of course not every African-American chooses to become a civil rights activist, but MLK day is widely marked within the Af-Am community and is an important moment for ALL Americans to remember the sacrifices and struggles of MLK and the broader civil rights movement. And that act of remembrance is a very good thing, in my opinion. It's a shame we don't have something similar.

[Souredstones]

Rememberance of what though?

[Souredstones]

Ah sorry thought you were comparing MLK day to the feminist cause

[CloudsAndTrees]

Zynia, you have it with your no. 2.

I did think it was fine. In fact, I thought I was lucky that being female meant that it was fairly easy for me to work part time and have so much time with my children. I did feel like it was fine for my finances to take a hit along with my career so that I could concentrate on being a Mum.

My ex was/is the one that has to work full time and pay for what goes on in two homes, not me.

Feminism that took place before I was born has done me favours, I know that, but I am the same as anyone else who just lives their lives according to what's around them.

[SinisterSal]

But some feminists are not nice people. So are some environmentalists/nurses/trade unionists. But I don't hear that people don't identify with those causes because of the bad apples. Bad feminist apples do tend to be perceived to do more harm than bad environmental apples. Ok, that's a matter of perception, I may be wrong. But it is somethingthat a lot of people have noticed - it is a thing - I think that says something about standards.
Souredstones my wheelchair user analogy was to show that women couldn't & in many cases still can't do all that men can do in the workplace. Maternity being the obvious one. Statutory leave is our equivalent of an entry ramp, I suppose.

[Zynia41]

You're so naïve. It doesn't work out so well for other women. It's alright jack syndrome. So long as your alright!

[Souredstones]

But can't you see that it has gone too far?

When I had my first I was only allowed 6 months off, now it's a year (not all stat but most of it) that's a year they have to pay me and employ and train a temp and pay all their benefits and rates too. Luckily I work for a very large corporation who can afford it, but what if I worked for a one man band type company that was barely keeping afloat. How is that fair on anyone?

Yes it's lovely to take all that time and come back to the job but that also needs to benefit the employer too, it's almost not.

[SinisterSal]

Feminism that took place before I was born has done me favours, I know that, but I am the same as anyone else who just lives their lives according to what's around them. said Clouds

I totally agree with that. Most people do and indeed should live that way.
But my first post on this thread was to the effect that rights are hard won and sometimes hard maintained. Feminists do a lot of maintaining work (think abortion rights for one example) and tbh I would expect people to be vaguely pro feminist for that alone. Or at least not actively anti-feminist For what my expectations are worth, i feel I must say!

[Souredstones]

Not really zynia. I see that there are cultures that are at least 100years behind us on many human rights issues including the treatment of women. But they are that, human rights issues, not feminist ones.

[Technotropic]

skyler

Of course but the comment made earlier was one sarcastically commenting on women who don't identify as feminists. Like they should be wearing the label because they now have the freedom to vote etc.

No woman should have to identify with feminism. Sure women can appreciate the freedoms gained but neither should they face criticism if they don't.

[Souredstones]

Exactly starfish

[Spero]

Worra explained why the 'bad apples' matter so much in feminism.

If you are bullied and displaced by men, seen as lesser... then you get the same treatment from so called 'feminists'. That is why it is so signficant.

It really isn't the same as saying, o well there are unpleasant people in every kind of field.

It is the particular kind of bullying self righteous close mindedness which is so damaging.

[thebody]

The law should exist to defend the rights of everyone.

As to how women choose to live their lives, up to them.

Anyone dictating to anyone else be it about politics, religion or parenting is as funny as its sad.

Fuck off is a single phrase.

[SabrinaMulhollandJjones]

It's not gone too far - in Scandinavian countries, maternity leave is 2 yrs. We're nowhere near that.

All the statistics show that women still do the lionshare of the childcare and housework - even when they work equal hours to the menz.

The fact that 'women's work' is still is our lexicon (and it is - I hear it fairly regularly) show that feminism is still needed.

[SinisterSal]

starfish Most feminists I know want the Scandinavian model of parental leave - something like this from memory - split into 3 batches. First for mother to get over the physical ordeal, establish bfing if preferred, bonding, Second & third tranche to be split equally between parents. This promotes bonding with father and child, stops the employers of women being the ones to take all the 'risk' of employing babymaking age people, and promotes an equal division of home labour, without it passing by default to the woman.

[SauceForTheGander]

It's not feminist to tell women how to live. That dictating IMO.

There isn't one female voice just as there isn't one male.

[FreudiansSlipper]

but fighting for equality is not something men have had to do, men becaue they maybe xyz have had to and sadly still do (along with women) but it is not becaue they have a penis while women simply because they are a woman has not had the same rights and is still often not treated as an equal even in the uk in 2013

[CloudsAndTrees]

You're so naïve. It doesn't work out so well for other women.

It's not naive, it's seeing it differently.

I know that there are countless issues in the world that are harmful to women, but I see that there are countless issues that affect men as well. I'm with Souredstones on that, these things are human rights issues, not feminist ones.

[Souredstones]

I just switch off when people become patronising whoever they are.

I also switch off when people talk about 'menz'

If mat/pat leave were split equally it would be great, give men the chance to be home makers. Some would thrive at it, but be honest, it's not really the place most men want to be. A lot are happy to be the breadwinner as many women are happy to stay home.

Women have driven themselves mad wanting to have it all and failing thinking they've let female kind down by not juggling it all.

[Souredstones]

Gay men, black men, disabled men....all men who 'fight for equality'

Men face the same issues as women.

[skylerwhite]

This thing about 'human rights issues' v 'feminist issues' is a false dichotomy, though, when you bear in mind that poverty and inequality disproportionately affects women. Across the world, at every level of society.

[WorraLiberty]

thebody sums it up perfectly for me.

And YY to 'the menz'

I'm sure it probably started out as an insult to men?

But now it's nearly always used by women to goad or insult other women's views, opinions and choices.

[SinisterSal]

Not all though souredstones there are some issues which just affect women, and some which affect mostly women, far more than men do (Not that men have none, of course they do) Everyone has the right to organise themselves and fight for issues which affect them. ergo, feminism. that's the difference between human rights and feminism, imo. I suppose feminism is a subset of human rights.