to feel saddened about " breast feeding covers

[Theas18]

lady on the next table in the cafe I'm in ifs beat feeding a lovely month or so old baby under a huge bib.

maybe she feels " happier about it" and all that but really. What do you see for a happily breastfeeding b baby-the back of a sweet little head? no big deal and very normal.

Why are we ( society) doing this to mums and babies. surely a 6 month old won't tolerate it anyway, so I guess they give up then :(

[GetYourSocksOff]

I can't stop thinking about this thread.

The point above is absolutely spot on.

Other posters have already expressed my thoughts more eloquently than I have, but the expectation and judgement placed on new mums by other women, who claim to be promoting women's freedom and choice, has shocked me.

Want to promote breastfeeding in society? Let us do it in our own way.

I would happily and vocally defend any woman's right to breastfeed openly in public, however they see fit. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've never needed to do this.

This thread is the closest I've come to feeling judged on my breastfeeding choices, which doesn't matter a jot now that my babies are older and no longer bf. But as a new mum I've felt flustered and self-conscious and overwhelmed. I've also had a hard time breast feeding. I do wonder if my choices would have been different if I'd read a thread like this before DC1.

[badguider]

Poppy's point reminds me of my two encounters with mixed naked saunas in countries where that is socially normal.

In Latvia, I was in a group for a professional study-trip with people from my professional life, though not close colleagues. We were presented with a naked mixed sauna situation... our Latvian hosts were very understanding when we started out in swimming costumes, even though they were naked... over the course of the evening (beautiful outdoor situation with lake for dips between sauna sessions, at sunset) we generally all (starting with the 2nd generation British Hungarian and then the older people, gradually moving to the younger ones) removed swimwear and used towels to cover ourselves, then were happy to generally be without the towels even.

In Austria, I was again in a social situation with people from other countries I didn't know well and the social activity was a mixed spa. This spa had big signs banning any sort of swimwear at any point and also provided you with their own (small) towels..... I confess that even though this was a few years after Latvia I didn't go in... it was just too much all at once to strip off and walk around naked in mixed company having come from the UK.

To me this illustrates perfectly the feelings that women have on starting to breastfeed in public, it IS socially acceptable (at least everywhere I mix) but it's also uncomfortable at first and takes a lot of getting used to. Easing into it gently imo makes it more likely to happen.

[intheshed]

I can see both sides- on the one hand, when I was breastfeeding newborns I did have to think about my wardrobe and didn't wear some things due to the fact they would give maximum exposure while breastfeeding, such as strapless maxi dresses in the summer etc. So I guess the cover kind of solves that problem.

On the other hand I just dislike what feels like even more commercialism and pressure on new mums to buy unnecessary stuff! I remember in my NCT group with DD1 approx 5 years ago someone had found a link to a US website selling these covers and we all had a giggle- not in a nasty way, more in a "only in America, what the hell will they think of next" kind of way. And yet these days they seem to be everywhere, (along with the ubiquitous cath kidston change bag and bugaboo)

Meh, maybe I'm just old fashioned. It really isn't a big deal though, breast, bottle, can of fanta I really don't care what or how other people feed their babies!

[GetYourSocksOff]

For some of us they are absolutely not unnecessary commercialism, they're a godsend.

I certainly didn't buy mine because I felt I 'had' to have it. I discovered them with DC1 just as I had had enough of expressing enough to bottle feed every time I went out and figured I'd give it a go. It's the one single reason I kept feeding 2 children for as long as I did. Believe me, I had practised, but things just weren't working for us and I felt stressed and exposed.

[JamieandtheMagicTorch]

intheshed

If you didn't want to buy one, how about one of those comedy men's aprons with a nude figure on ....

[ICBINEG]

Can someone point out where all the judgement on this thread is supposed to be?

I (and all the other posters I have seen including the OP) don't have the slightest problem the woman using the cover. Or FFing for that matter.

The only problem I have is that society applies pressure to women that sometimes makes them feel the need to cover up while feeding.

Can people really not understand the difference?

You do as you will and good for you, whatever.

Society on the other hand needs to sort it's shit out so that breasts become substantially less fetishized and people don't feel the need to blush if they accidentally flash a nipple.

We are not judging people, we are judging society.

[JamieandtheMagicTorch]

ICBINEG

As I said earlier, I think the OPs real attitude leaks out with this sniffy quote from the OP:

"maybe she feels " happier about it" and all that but really." Like the mother's happiness is a minor consideration.

I agree society needs to sort out its shit, I really do. But I think it's a bit of a dangerous message to be giving to women that they have to be the standard bearers for the "correct" way to feed.

[GetYourSocksOff]

Actually, ICBINEG, your attitude stinks right there.

Yep, I can understand the difference. I don't need your approval, albeit slightly marred by the 'whatever' but... whatever.

I do however think other women should be able to breastfeed in whatever way they feel comfortable, without other people feeling pompously sad or having a giggle (I know that wasn't aimed directly at a mother). And that's just this page.

[namechangea]

I must stop looking at this thread as once again I'm getting Mumsnet tourettes.

[GetYourSocksOff]

This is my first experience of mumsnet Tourette's and I'm scared it might get addictive

[ICBINEG]

I don't recall insisting that anyone be a standard bearer?

And I really think it is allowable to feel sad that society makes BFing in public something that some women feel uncomfortable about.

[ICBINEG]

I also feel sad that I would feel far too uncomfortable to BF my toddler in public. In fact I felt uncomfortable when she started telling my family about how cow's milk comes from cows and 'purple milk' (don't ask) comes from breasts.

I don't beat myself up over not feeling brave enough to expose the local cafe frequenters to BF of toddlers though, sometimes you don't have the energy or gumption for such things......

but I do feel a tiny bit sad that I don't feel able to just feed my child the way I want to....and I will continue to feel sad for everyone out there in the same position - be it due to big boobs, milk spray, fussy babies or child age.

I don't know about pompously sad...but I could give it a shot! Is it like normal sad but with pompoms?

[PoppyAmex]

ICB as I said upthread, I think you're confused - this is not a breastfeeding issue at all.

Women aren't hiding breastfeeding because they're ashamed of the act; that's simply not the case.

I've never ever heard of any breastfeeding mother expressing shame about the act of feeding their babies (in public or not).

They're hiding their breasts, which is an entirely different matter.

[ICBINEG]

I will accept in my case of toddlers it is a different issue...but the two aren't exactly separable.

[ICBINEG]

Also I am even more pompously sad that women are required by society to cover more of their bodies then men by default.

[GetYourSocksOff]

Sad with pompoms

Interestingly, ICBINEG I agree with you about the toddler issue. I think there is a great deal of acceptance now when it comes to feeding babies in public. Some people in the proximity may find it a bit awkward or embarrassing but it's getting better all the time. Because increasingly nursing mums ARE getting out there and doing it. But yes, the older the child gets the less comfortable westerners are.

But this is a complex issue. The African pictures, for example, are lovely to but paint it as some kind of matriarchal utopia is polarised and misguided. And as somebody pointed out, it's a hell of a lot warmer over there . Hygiene standards necessitate longer nursing times in many cases, which simply isn't the case over here. It's never going to be as widespread and therefore as mainstream for older children to breastfeed in the UK.

But I also agree with poppy . And please don't shoot me down for this, but I like that my breasts can also be sexy. I'm not ashamed of them, in fact, since having babies, I think they're pretty amazing. They're not for general viewing however, this is my choice and always has been.

My problem with the thread is that there are comments from pro breastfeeders which are not at all supportive of mothers using covers (I was going to look for some quotes but there are so many it really is stating the obvious). It's an emotive issue and that kind of approach will almost certainly do more damage than good

[ZenGardener]

I feed my 2 year old in public. I don't give a flying fig what people think but I used to work as a secondary school teacher and I really would rather my former pupils don't see me with my boobs out especially in this age of phone cameras.

Maybe that makes people sad but I don't care. It's actually quite snuggly and intimate to use a blanket to feed.

[MyDarlingClementine]

Its an issue for the BF mother and no one else.
Its not for any other person to look at another and try and work out why they are doing something.

Having a neck high scarf on, for me, was simply easier to manouvre underneath with plenty of room and giving baby plenty of air and space too.

It was nothing - nothing to do with wanting to be hidden from the neck down like a Victorian bather.

My cover was in valuable to me, when I got the hang of BF with more ease, I was able to graduate onto tops, and scarfs.

I never bare my breasts on a beach, and whether anyone likes it or not they are sexual objects.

Men get turned on by breasts.

You can ban the sun but they will still find them sexy.


I chose to cover mine when BF because I always cover them. I do not even wear tops showing much cleavage.

They have never ever been something I want to show off, or a feature.


Some comments on here sound like students come back from a gap year in Africa wishing we could all be the same

[YummyYummyYum]

She likes to cover, that's all. On the other hand, I have no shame and I am proud to show my 30G boobs thank you bra intervention ladies when feeding my baby.

[grants1000]

I had very large breast feeding boobs, unlike some who have little ones so easy to pop on baby and feed, I had to get my feeding boob almost completely out to feed and both took a while to latch on, so lots of nipple exposure.

Why would I want to that in a cafe without any privacy? A muslin and a quiet corner sufficed. No sad or shamfull, just easier, more comfortable and conveniet.

OP is bonkers.

[Minifingers]

"Why would I want to that in a cafe without any privacy?"

Well - in the UK you wouldn't.

But if you'd been born in other countries where the majority of people don't bat an eyelid at the sight of a baby breastfeeding no matter what the size and shape of the mum's breast, and where you see breastfeeding EVERYWHERE, you may well have felt differently.

"Some comments on here sound like students come back from a gap year in Africa wishing we could all be the same"

I lived in Africa, India, Sri Lanka and Thailand as a child and young adult so have seen normal breastfeeding across the world. I DO wish were more like women in those countries, because they don't seem to have half the angst/problems we have with breastfeeding. Maybe it's because they don't spend as much time as we do worrying about people looking at them while they breastfeed and thinking they've got wobbly tummies/saggy boobs/big boobs/big nipples/stretch marks etc.

"It's actually quite snuggly and intimate to use a blanket to feed."

Yes - I love eating my sandwiches with a pillow case over my head.

[Minifingers]

"Women aren't hiding breastfeeding because they're ashamed of the act; that's simply not the case."

No - if you go by many of the posts on this thread they usually seem to hide breastfeeding because they're ashamed of their breasts/body, and don't want to draw attention to them.

[grants1000]

"No - if you go by many of the posts on this thread they usually seem to hide breastfeeding because they're ashamed of their breasts/body, and don't want to draw attention to them"

The above is utter crap.

I would not want someone looking at my vagina in a cafe, does not mean I'm ashamed. Why would I want to expose my breast and nipple to complete strangers to see? This does not mean I am ashamed it means I want privacy.

I had no angst or worries about feeding my child with a muslin because I did not want people being able to see my breasts and nipples, nothing at all to do with shame/angst/worry.

No one eats with a pillow over their head, what a daft thing to say.

Why not go the whole hog and have sex in public? It's natural after all, bodies are not to be ashamed off, a nice ball sac with you latte madame?

[GetYourSocksOff]

A nice ball sac with your latte madam - love it

You see, it's the blind arrogance and blind sightedness which makes me despair. Minifingers, you might make some valid points along the way, I honestly have no idea because I'm so pissed off by your arrogance.

How dare you completely dismiss somebody's feeding choices with her own child? And equate it to an adult eating sandwiches in a pillow case? Bloody ridiculous.

[GetYourSocksOff]

Interestingly, and by complete coincidence, I clicked on a blog link on MN earlier (about judginess and avocados). And have found myself falling a little in love with the author and exploring the blog further... Including her section on gentle parenting and as part of that, breastfeeding.

Can I link on here to blogs? I'm not sure.

Her posts on breastfeeding are beautiful and make me wish I'd found her blog before either one of my babies. It's inspiring and has shifted my own perspective a little. Maybe part of the difference is that there are pictures, beautiful pictures, of her feeding her baby and toddler (as opposed to 'do as I say... whilst I sit fully clothed and judge you'). And her writing is humorous and positive and balanced.

This is the kind of message which needs to reach new mums. Just that it's one way of doing it and normal people are doing it and it's kind of beautiful and inspiring. Not that everybody else is getting it wrong.