to think that within a few years we will be paying to visit the GP,Conservatives consider limit on GP visits

[MiniTheMinx]

The Conservatives have considered limiting the number of times patients can visit their family doctor in a year, it has emerged.

"Labour health spokesman Jamie Reed told the Independent on Sunday: "This paper, hidden away on their website, reveals the Tories' true agenda for the NHS. After throwing the NHS open to ever more privatisation with a wasteful and damaging reorganisation, it seems the Tories want to go even further.
"It's shocking that they are considering limiting the number of times patients can see their GP - changing the fundamental principle in the NHS constitution that access to the NHS is based on clinical need.
"The Tories have already wasted £3bn on a top-down reorganisation of the NHS and overseen a crisis in A&E - now they are consulting their members on opening up the NHS to even more competition, and making it harder for patients to see GPs in the evenings and at weekends."

A Conservative Party spokesman said: "This was simply a topic to provoke discussion and isn't Conservative Party policy."

Yet.

We all know where we are headed with this don't we? or am I being an unreasonable old cynic?

ParsingFancy Tue 28-May-13 19:21:27
"NazgulSnood, I'm not at all surprised GPs are seeing rising demands for paperwork, with the nonsense of schools demanding doctor's notes for absences.

DWP/ATOS are more culprits. They've increased the frequency of reassessing people for Incapacity Benefit/ESA but reduced the number of reports sought by ATOS by letter, thus dumping responsibility on the patient who then makes an appointment with GP: "GPs 'flooded' with letter requests due to UK benefit reforms""

Hear hear. If parents are threatened with prison if their child has multiple viruses, what else can they do except ask their GP to provide the paperwork?

Can't say I've noticed any rude or incompetent staff round my local surgery.

Besides, even if they were rude and incompetent, for most of us it would still be a choice between being seen by rude and incompetent staff or not being seen at all.

LifeHuh we really do sit around and wait for no shows. Our outpatient clinics are run on the basis of how many clinicians routinely in clinic and timed slots. We allocate a new patient with cancer a double slot 40 min then we have 20 min follow up slots for each clinician until clinic finishes. We often sit around waiting for patients who don't show or are late, and late patients result in a bottleneck at certain times. It's very frustrating. Following clinics then get overbooked and run late because the DNAs need to be slotted back in quickly (have cancer so we can't delay them and discharging even those who have DNAd on more than 3 consecutive occasions is frowned upon as we do actually care about these patients).

CUNTS

and I never use that word, actually I take it back, it's too good for them,

Tory festering fungus toenails,

It like they want to start a war.

Hear Hear

Or should that be here here

A few years ago I once attended OPs and got chatting to the person next to me. She had been given the same appointment time with the same consultant, so it does happen.

Jersey, I think it's more accurate to say there are no poor time wasters. I'm pretty sure those for who have money aren't put off by the cost of the appointment. Like I said earlier, some of those with genuine ailments that do need to see a doctor can be put off by the cost.

I haven't noticed much difference in getting appointments either. In the UK I've phoned up at 10am and got an 11 am appointment and this hasn't been a one off. IME the difficulty patients have getting an appointment is often down to the organisation of the surgery rather than time wasters taking up places.

Perhaps charging for missed appointments would be a staring point in generating extra revenue which could then be put to good use?

I would have no qualms about paying for a missed appointment, and I have missed a few in the past for one reason or another. It would certainly discourage people.

Of course, possibly the reason appointments are being missed is that after waiting five weeks for one, the patient is either better or has forgotten they were ill and had actually made an appointment in the first place!

KevinFoley

See hotels and airlines over book so that they get 99% of bums on seats and beds as they allow for DNS

it does happen that you end up with 110 in a 108 bed hotel and then you have to walk two rooms to another hotels and pay for the night for those guests - but it is very rare.

Why don't the NHS over book so if you run 20 minute appointment then book them in every 15 minutes - that way no shows aren't such a problem and no one waits very long.

"But do you know what? Because we have to pay to see the GP, minor ailments people go to the pharmacy. There is no major wait to see a GP"

Which is exactly what will happen here too, despite all the wailing and hand wringing, if they did the same, as it's what happens every time you put a small charge on a limited resource.

ivykaty some clinics do overbook as they routinely have lots of DNA patients. We don't do this yet for our cancer clinics as we anticipate (wrongly it seems) that patients with cancer might take their health seriously, and sometimes they do and DNA is as low as 5%. We can over run anyway as patients often turn up unwell / with lots of questions / with relatives in tow who have lots of questions. To couple this with overbookings would most certainly involve longer waits for patients. Our patients are often quite unwell and need to come regularly and for those reasons don't cope well with long clinic waits and room overcrowding. It is hard to know what to do to tackle the patients who just don't show up. Patients with cancer also now have a very powerful voice through the yearly cancer patient surveys and we are doing everything possible to avoid upset and deliver a good experience inc minimising waiting times and avoiding conflict with patients. Overbooking clinics or discharging patients who don't turn up is a high risk procedure for everyone involved. The patients who just don't turn up are often the most vulnerable too (chronic ill health/chaotic or poor lifestyles/young patients/non English speaking).

secure.38degrees.org.uk/dont-cap-GP-visits

Here is a 38degrees petition against these proposals

The wailing and handwringing isn't because people with minor ailments will go to the pharmacy, Lazy, it's because people with cancer will go to the pharmacy thinking it's a minor ailment.

This has scared the shit out of me, seriously.

I would be branded one of those time wasters, the GP actually told my DGM that I was just attention seeking and looking to skip school when I went complaining of all sorts of pains.

It took me 10 fucking years to get a diagnosis of a genetic disorder, one that has had me in cardiology, physio, pain clinics, uro-gyn. You name it and I've probably had to see them.

As if it's not hard enough to get a bloody GP appointment, I've been trying to get one for nearly 2 months and can't, everytime I phone up I have to give a detailed description of why I am calling, even when it's been to do with passing blood! "Are you sure it's from the back and not your vagina"!! From bloody receptionists who aren't medically trained. Then if it is deemed important enough I have to wait on a call from a GP (usually a locum who has never met me before) anytime up till 8pm at night to speak to me to decide if I actually need an appointment.

Is it not hard enough already to be seen when you need it?

And maybe if it was possible for more people to get easily made on the day appointments, instead of having to book weeks and weeks in advance then less appointments would be missed.

LazyJaney Those of us on here "hand wringing" are genuinely ill people who need their GP. What right do you have to assume we are all the worried well?!

There are also some very vulnerable people who visit their GP regularly. A few years ago, you might have referred them to a befriending service or to a voluntary organisation. But now, cut cut slash slash and there is very little left. The poor and vulnerable and getting shafted again and again. I don't object to cuts in the NHS. I object to cuts to frontline services when so much bloody money is wasted in other places!

Also, £41 may be a small charge to you but it's something so many people cannot afford! How arrogant.

But lazy, not all minor ailments do go to the pharmacist. Those that can't afford to pay go. Most others still go to the GP. Meanwhile, you still have people that can't afford to pay not going to the GP for treatment that they need because its too expensive.

Kevin - are the cancer patients that don't show up being surveyed at all in a non blame way to enquire why they couldn't turn up to try to make things better for them?

I can't imagine not turning up for an appointment, I think that was why I was so shocked that over 1300 patients hadn't turned up in April at my local hospital. But I wonder why these cancer patients don't turn up and whther there are a few recurring problems that are the same

for some of course it may be pure fear, fear that keeps them away so they dont' have to face up to it and then they hope it will go away. If they don't have the appointment then it isn't real and it sin't happening to them.

But does anyone look into the reason why cancer patients in particular don't show up? Just curious

I'm really worried about this. I knew the tories would do something like this before they were through. I think I would be classed as someone who has lots of doctors appointments. I never really went to the doctors until after I had kids. Since having children, I have had no end of problems with thyroid, bladder and urethra issues. What am I supposed to do? I had no idea that having dc would cause me so many physical problems. This is yet another attack on women as far as I'm concerned, as women will obviously have more issues through pregnancy and child birth. I hate this government so much that they're making me ill. Just wait for them to charge us a 'small fee' to get our children educated

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread. But just want to point out that in Norway, which is one of the most 'equal' countries in the world, we pay for every GP visit. Children and pregnant ladies / ladies for 1 yr after giving birth get free treatment though.
People with certain conditions qualify for free/ subsidised treatment. There isn't any sort of underclass here due to medical conditions. So i don't think it is necessarily a bad thing to have to pay something.

And how many people dont show up because their employer has made it awkward for them to do so

I think that's probably one of many reasons for patients not showing up. I don't know how much research goes into finding out why patients haven't turned up. That might be a much better way of reducing the number of no shows. It won't get rid of all or even most of them but if there are some cheap ways to reduce some of then it could save money. I'm not sure fining people would actually work.