To think, actually, WOH gets harder as they get older.

[Tournament]

I've worked (at least p-t) all my life. It was a choice for me, I wanted to get out to work, keep my career etc, although I did very much step back for a while, I always kept my hand in IYSWIM.

When DC were tiny, there was always some feeling of guilt at not always being there, but the day to day practicalities were easy. You got them up and dressed, bundled them in the car, handed them over to GP, childminder or nursery and then it was someone else's job to do everything for them until it was practically bedtime. They were cared for, fed and entertained without me ever really having to do anything. (When I was at work). I'd collect on my way home, take them home and put them to bed.

Now they're 9 & 11, there's homework to supervise, clubs to organise, taxi services to provide, sports and school events to watch (or to have to explain you can't) friendship issues or other worries to listen to and if I'm not around after school, they can't have friends back and they can't go to other's houses.

[QueenCadbury]

Haven't had a chance to read all the replies but I totally agree with you. I always thought it would get easier once they're at school but it doesn't. Their needs are easily met in the early years and and in some respects nursery is so easy in that you don't have to think about meals etc. I think mine (age 5 and 7) need me far more to be around at home now hence the decision when I had dc3 (nearly 2) I didn't return to work.

[Babelange]

bonkersLFDT20: DH works 7-4 (not flexi, it's his job) so he is looking after them - younger usually does a club after school/goes to CM in the gap. DH is no entertainments officer - he's been at work all day too.

Do you actually have children? Perhaps you are the smug parent with tame little kittens instead of children...?! My comments were to be taken tongue in cheek as life ebbs and flows - this discussion is a chance to air these things.

BUT DCs have developed minds of their own. Oh they were perfect Gina Ford babes. Now they are feisty and opinionated. They bench mark their lives with other children (and the grass is always greener). They complain. They've had great after school carers in the past. DS2 has the stamina of an ox. The only time I have seen him genuinely tired recently is when I made him watch Gardeners World last Friday - he was begging for bed.

[OwlLady]

I found it impossible once my youngest started school and I gave up working a few months after. But my three are all at different schools, 18 miles apart...which doesn't help!

[curryeater]

This is a very interesting thread, although it makes me feel a bit doomy. My dcs are 4 and 2 and the 4-year-old is making proper friends (I mean independent friends, not just hanging out with the dcs of my friends). I had a text from a friend's parent asking her over to play, with me, after nursery. I can't say yes, she can go to some house I have never been with adults I vaguely know by sight (who seem very nice, but, you know). I can't tell the CM she has to hang out some other house, with her other mindees, nor should the friend's parents accommodate a CM and a small tribe of children. So we are working something out, but it makes me feel like a git that everyone assumes there is a parent available in the background, and there isn't, and honestly I am wondering if there should be, because there will be more and more of this.
I am neurotic about this because I remember my teen years as very lonely and difficult because my mother worked so hard she had no time to be involved in my life (my dad was obviously irrelevant, as dads were in those days), so she didn't know my friends or their parents (or rather the people I pathetically cravenly was trying to make friends with), so every time I was invited anywhere, I couldn't go, and it was gutting.

[SusanneLinder]

Perhaps you've all forgotten what it's like to have a small baby and a toddler going 'muuuuumeeeeee' every five seconds!

I have a 14 year old that does that! :o

[theoriginalandbestrookie]

That's a hard one curryeater.

I have to say that I'm not overly bothered about other parents reciprocating our invites as DS is an only and I'm just happy that he can have friends over to play at least every so often.

Maybe not suitable at nursery age, but could you maybe arrange a mums night out on a Friday night so you could get to know the other mums from nursery, then feel more confident about your dc going there without you - which they tend to do from P1 onwards.

I have to say we are quite lucky, DS goes to a fee paying school and they try not to make assumptions about parents being available at short notice, apart from Sports day. Same thing has happened as last year, first thing I know about it is an email from the PTA asking if parents can man the tea stall on such a such a date, cue frantic looking at diary from me and figuring what work meeting I can skip to be there.

[BoffinMum]

I certainly find the older ones harder than the younger ones.

In addition to the usual responsibilities, the biggest problem is that we are supposed to host exchange students regularly, but they aren't allowed to travel on the train to school, instead we are seriously expected to drive them in and back for 2 weeks even if they are 15 or 16 and other pupils will be with them on the train or bus to make sure they don't get lost. As in most families both parents work, making this completely unrealistic, many families have refused to host and the school is always scrabbling around for volunteers. I am sure this will eventually kill off the exchanges.

[BoffinMum]

Is there anyone else who wishes you could buy into holistic support for the over 11s, where they got the kind of proxy parenting kids get in nurseries? (age specific, natch).

[MummytoMog]

I don't know about it being harder when they're older - we're planning on getting an au pair once ours are a bit bigger, but right now we can't generally afford to have someone full time, so childcare is a total expensive hideous nightmare.


In contrast, we'll be fine once they're in F/T education as we could afford a CM to drop off and pick up, or an au pair plus to do it everyday. What we can't afford is £2K+ a month for full time childcare for a 2 and 3 year old. Mind you, mine purposefully go to bed late (8.30-9pm) so I get a good hour with them after work, so I'm used to having quite a lot of input during the week.

[MammaTJ]

I think yours are at the hardest age OP. They want to do things and enjoys clubs and such but are not old enough to take themselves independantly.

Child care for that age, especially 11 year old is hard to come by too.

[curryeater]

the thing is, I am enjoying my children more and more the older they get. I was devoted to them as babies but I hadn't worked out whether or not I actually liked them; and looking after them felt very physical and relentless and I am not a very physical person. Now we have a laugh. I like chatting, drawing, sticking, making, thinking, joking, singing, all that kind of stuff so it seems hard that someone else is doing all that. I wouldn't swap a year now for maternity leave, because I'm glad it was me who looked after them day and night when they were tiny, and I'm glad they were breastfed. But I am missing them far more than I ever did when I was without them as babies (not that I was for long, and hardly ever, and yes it did make my breasts ache then and at least I don't have that)

[edam]

I found it much more difficult when ds went to school and even more difficult now I'm back working full-time outside the home. Nightmare trying to find before-school care for a 9yo- we have ended up with me having to get my boss to let me start later yet still needing to rely on other parents to walk him up to school. After-school is less tricky as there's an after school club but I'd rather he was with a childminder as there's more chance to relax -just can't find one that picks up from ds's school, has a space and is open until 6.30.

At least when he was younger I could just drop him off at nursery and pick him up on my way home from work. Then I had a live-out nanny for a while - that was bliss but impossible to afford these days.

[VerySmallSqueak]

I think it is not harder but different (so far - mine are Juniors age).

The thing I find most stressful are the demands made of the school,in so far as attending stuff and having to deal with so much paperwork all the time. There's always something needed or something not to forget.
I find school holidays are at times a bit easier than term time as childcare is on my terms,whereas school is on their terms (not moaning about it btw,just saying).

But...BUT.....They can now get themselves ready for school.Bath themselves.Do most of their homework themselves.Tidy up after themselves.
I'm not having to spend half the evening making purees and dealing with crying and late feeds.

No doubt things will be different again as they enter secondary school.
Now that's the bit that scares the hell out of me .

[Wallison]

I actually find it loads easier now that the childcare doesn't have to be full-time. Also, there are all sorts of practical in-the-home benefits to having an older child - my DS will hoover, and tidy his room, get his own snacks and drinks and help with the cooking etc - which means that I'm not constantly running around after him and doing housework etc so we have more quality time together.

I suppose it depends on your expectations of how things will pan out - I always knew that I'd be paying out childcare costs for well over a decade because if there aren't two parents then obviously there isn't another person to juggle and shift things around with so I'm just happy that they've reduced so drastically since he's been at school. Our school is really crap at giving notice though, which is a massive bugbear of mine and despite repeated complaints from me and others they aren't getting any better. It makes me really upset when I have to miss events that are important to my DS, when I could have gone to them if only I'd been told sooner than the day before.

[Wallison]

X-posted with you VerySmallSqueak but I agree with you on pretty much every point! Have to say I am loving having an older child and seeing his life and vistas opening out for him; it's most rewarding. I am also dreading secondary school - it feels very much like uncharted territory!

[arcticwaffle]

I have found it got easier all the way from babyhood, in terms of being a WOTH parent. Maybe we've been lucky in that all 3 of our primary schools have had good flexible before and after school care, but I'm finding it far far easiler these days (dc are 13, 11, 9).

It was quite tricky when we had dc in school and nursery, so 1 or 2 on 5 short days + long holidays, and the other 1 or 2 in 3 long nursery days. That was the hardest bit for juggling.

And nursery was the hardest for babies getting colds, or conjunctivitis, or teething.

[VerySmallSqueak]

Wallison .I kept nagging about the lack of notice.After about 3 years of doing so,things have improved dramatically.

I couldn't believe the lack of notice at times - or the letting you know a date,but not a time.
I need figures.Exacts.Sometimes things can work out to the minute if necessary.

It's also details that are important.
Is it a 5 minute assembly where you won't be seen in the crowd,or are there coffees after where all the kids go to their parent(s) and hang out with them for a few minutes? Little details like that can make a real difference when you decide what you can and can't make.

My main bugbear now is lack of communication when you aren't able to pick them up from school yourself so don't see class windows and noticeboards......

[Wallison]

Oh God yes, the endless bugs of baby and toddlerhood were a nightmare. Emotionally, in that it's horrible seeing them suffering and also logistically in that it's a nightmare taking time off work at short notice.

[Wallison]

Glad to hear things have improved for you, VerySmallSqueak - here's hoping that my endless griping will have a similar effect. And I agree with you on details; I don't get any from DS, so really need the school to tell me everything. Which they don't, half the time.

[VerySmallSqueak]

Oh arctic with two close together I found I had a run of several years where one was always in a different setting to the other (CM,school,nursery,pre school) and the amount of illness was almost unworkable with because they were perpetually picking up every bug known.

It took until my youngest being halfway through infants for things to settle down.

[amazingmumof6]

tournament - I think you've just described exactly why I never want a FT job (if I can choose to carry on being a SAHM).

I once read an article about this exact issue/topic - they asked the children what they thought about being alone after school until the parent/s came home.

they were teenagers (aged between 13-18 if I'm correct) and their answers and wishes were an eye-opener for me.
some said they were actually scared being home alone or just disliked having to eat dinner on their own and that they simply missed their parents, their company and so on.

I think it was in a Reader's Digest magazine about ten years ago - if I find it I'll copy it.

Disclaimer: I know some WOH parents already feel guilty about "abandoning" their children, whatever age, so I'm not saying this to make matters worse.
it's just that I (and whoever wrote the article) were surprised that more teenagers did care about mum being home or not than we realize - even if they don't admit it!
I told my mum about that article and she got immediately offended and defensive, thinking I was critical about her going to work.
well I wasn't as I knew & understood that she had no choice, but to work FT!
so for those who don't have a choice to WOH or prefer it - I'm not wearing judgey pants, please don't get offended!

[TheSilveryPussycat]

Haven't read all this (but will) just would like to have an old gimmer rant about the old days, when despite many women being SAHM (with Home Responsibility Protection for their state pension), homework was unheard of until secondary school.

And at secondary school we had a strange thing called a Homework Timetable - hist, maths, Monday, physics, French Tues etc. so everyone knew what was what. My DC, who are now young adults, never had such a sophisticated organisational tool, just a notebook with random tasks assigned, which made things much harder than they needed to be. (And don't get me started on 'make a model of a trebuchet' for history homework grrr)

[arcticwaffle]

I had 2 full time working parents and we liked coming home to an empty house (I did it from 8 up, but with siblings there too). Less of the intense parental gaze. You could watch Tv and make snacks without hassle.

And my dc enjoy this too, the 11 and 9yo have come home alone/together for 3 years now. They seem quite happy. They do their homework, mostly, without our intervention, whether we are around or not. And when we do come home we can pick up the pieces and chat to them, they don't need us there for the whole 6 hrs between getting home and bedtime for that.

[Tailtwister]

I think it depends on the school set up tbh. If they have a good after school system then they actually get to access more extra curricular activities than I ever did with a SAHM. DS gets half an hour early birds in the morning where he gets to indulge in his current craft obsession and the after school care is amazing. Clubs, supervised homework, cookery club, loads of sport etc. It's all pretty much the same for us as it was with nursery, except slightly less guilt inducing.

We still do loads of stuff as a family, but it is hard going for us. Swimming classes start at 7.30am on a sat, which is pretty brutal after a long week. I work part-time right now, but will go up to 4 days once DS2 is at school in a couple of years.