To think that no child should be allowed to ruin the learning of 29 children

[ReallyTired]

My son's year 6 class has been constantly distruped by one or two children. It is unfair that 28 children cannot learn because of the behaviour of one or two.

I feel it really doesn't matter what the reason is for a child who constantly misbehaves (before someone gets out the flame thrower/ violin) the other children have a right to learn in a calm ordered environment. Often badly children do not have learning difficulties or difficult family circumstances.

Or put it another way some children with special needs or a difficult home life have explematory behaviour.

It is not fair that many hard working children have to put up with child X making stupid noises (NOT TOURETTES or any other special need) or constantly shouting out or arguing with the teacher because their parents can't afford private school.

It would be interesting to know what other countries do with children who constantly distrupt the class. (Other than using the cane.)

I believe that Britain's in ablity to deal with low level disruption in the classroom has reduced social mobility.

Luffs Dinkys
Hear-hears hazey
Passes Fanjo the fire blanket.

Every child belongs to their local community, their local school. They are part of that microcosm of society and should be welcomed.

If the issue is behavioural, then it is your responsibility, as a citizen of that society, to support the parents and school. I have found, as a teacher, social exclusion in the community can be an enormous factor.

If the issue is an additional support need, it is your responsibility, as a citizen of that society, to have some compassion and teach your children to have some too.

Human beings respond best when integrated into the community to which they belong. These are children you are talking about. Children. They have a capacity for change that is beyond the vast majority of adults.

Learning tolerance, compassion and how to support others in need is as, if not more, important as academic progress.

You should go into school and lend your weight to finding this child more support in class. Parents have enormous power - use it. Campaign to get a TA for this child.

All children belong to all of us.

for that post, Stargirl, I had to repost it in bold, because you said it so well.

for stargirl

fanjo

You really can't blame the teacher for this.

As you say, some children choose to behave badly. They probably have a reason for this being the most attractive option to them, but it is wrong that other children have to put up with it and have their learning disrupted.

In most cases, the teacher will be as frustrated as anyone else. There is only so much they can do, and even if they have a head teacher that is as supportive as possible, they are still at the mercy of the LA and other services.

Exclusion is rarely a solution, it just shifts the problem. Many secondary schools have to take a child that has been expelled from elsewhere if they expel one of their own.

Obviously, the ideal would be that extra staff are provided so that disruptive children can be educated in isolation away from engaged pupils, but that costs a lot of money, which has to come from somewhere. We don't want to pay more tax, and we don't want other essential services to be reduced to pay for it. So unfortunately, we just have to put up with it, and as parents do our best to mitigate the effects of it on our own children.

I am suppressing a tear at your post, clouds, it is just dripping with the milk of human kindness

Hazeyjane you are so right, being roughyly around your DF's age I can
confirm when I was in school in the early 50's (as a pupil) there were some very disruptive children. Did not harm my education.

OP and others where is your compassion? Every child has a beauty spot please look for it, your life will be happier

"It would cost too much tax to just totally get rid of the disruptive children so our little darlings will just have to muddle along as well as we can"..

What would have been your preferred response Fanjo?

Should I be telling the OP that she is wrong for being frustrated at a frustrating situation?

Or should I talk bullshit like others on this thread that seem to believe that children can learn tolerance and compassion for their classmates when they are not being shown any themselves? To learn those things, you need to be shown those things IMO.

No, no do be open about how you feel clouds.

this could very possibly this be a child with SEN/SN who does not have a dx or whose difficulties haven't been accurately identified.

No dx does not equal no SN - but I'm sure the OP is aware of that.
However the OP has not explained why she is so positive that child X does not have sn/sen.

Disregarding SEN/SN, this behaviour could well be exacerbated by an ineffective/inexperienced teacher or a teacher who is isn't backed up by senior management (more likely).

'I feel that log of bad behaviour should be kept and punishments should be escalated in severity. '
You really think that your log of naughtiness will help the child to change their behaviour?

Maybe some of the people here who don't show compassion weren't shown any either then, poor things.

'Or should I talk bullshit like others on this thread that seem to believe that children can learn tolerance and compassion for their classmates when they are not being shown any themselves? To learn those things, you need to be shown those things IMO.'

the irony

Startail Wed 08-May-13 10:50:30
I helped in one class where one girl got kicked continuously by a DC who just couldn't cope with mainstream school. I was a student I couldn't say anything.

I had the sheer joy of being the DC suffering near constant kicks and hits and verbal abuse as I was sat next to the most disruptive DC in the class. I was 7-8 at the time he was spectacular bad it was because I was quiet and well behaved and I think my parents made less fuss than others.

I was miserable and hated going to school the adults around me knew and did nothing to help me.

However much compassion I have for families and children with difficulties none of my DC will be going though what I did.

Thanks Fanj, I will.

A log could help in that it will put pressure on the head to get support if they aren't already, and if they are then it will help them put pressure on other support services.

However, there is a disruptive child in the class I work in. We have kept a log for over a year, but it doesn't get read by anyone who could make a difference. We have pushed and pushed and pushed for support from the LEA, they have been about as much help as a chocolate fire guard.

You work in a class?

And would like to bin off all the disruptive pupils elsewhere except you wouldn't pay the tax?

Oh dear.

stargirl1701 I disagree if it turns into extreme bullying, racial abuse etc to the other child/children. Why should they tolerate that?

No, I don't want to 'bin off all the disruptive pupils elsewhere'.

What I want, in an ideal world, is for children who can't or won't behave appropriately in a classroom, to receive the attention and support they need. I also want every other child to be educated in a classroom where they are allowed to concentrate on what they are doing.

What's wrong with that?

Nothing is wrong with that.

It is totally different to your original comment.

"Obviously, the ideal would be that extra staff are provided so that disruptive children can be educated in isolation away from engaged pupils, but that costs a lot of money, which has to come from somewhere. We don't want to pay more tax, and we don't want other essential services to be reduced to pay for it. So unfortunately, we just have to put up with it,"

No, it isn't.

You may have read it differently to the way it was intended to come across, or maybe I put my point across badly, but all I meant in either post was that children who are disruptive should be in a different classroom during lessons. I still think they should be together at all other times of the school day.

well i do hope that is true :)